4 Reasons Why Israel is a Rogue State

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Reminder to all. Opposing Israel doesn't mean you oppose the Jews. Orthodox Jews are heavily against the idea of Zionism because they believe that a Jewish state can only be gained miraculously.

In the Talmud (Meseches Kesuvos, 111a) there were three vows between Heaven and Earth:


1. Israel would not “go up like a wall” [conquer Eretz Yisrael by massive force].
2. God made Israel swear that they would not rebel against the nations of the world [would obey the governments in exile].
3. God made the non­-Jews swear not to oppress Israel “too much” [translation of phrase yoter midai].

Source -https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/anti-zionism-among-jews

Considering that Israel was only formed in 1947/1948 in circumstances where the partition of the land of Palestine was unwelcome by many, it doesn't surprise me that Israel have struggled to be peaceful.

It's an unfortunate situation..

And it's not like the Jews had any other options. The Balfour Declaration that was signed in 1917 was done by the British and the British played an early role in pushing the Jews to the area of Palestine. Plus the Holocaust and the Nazi expansion throughout WW2 only intensified this refuge of Jews into the area of Palestine. Israel didn't create itself, it was the result of the British designating a place for the Jews in Palestine and actively suppressing Muslim opposition which explains the latter that would unfold in 1948 and onward.

Well...what happened was that secular European Jews came to the conclusion that Jews will never be safe in Europe and needed a homeland (due to the Dryfuss Affair and to the rise a rabble rousing Antisemitic mayor in Vienna who was the role model for the then young and unknown Hitler). And the Brits ..agreed...so..."we Brits will rob Peter to pay Paul...steal land from the Arabs to give to you Jews...what could possible go wrong?". Hense the Balfour Resolution at the end of WWI.

Folks of my generation always knew that Israel had secret nukes. And we were all always okay with that because Israel is surrounded by neighbors who wanna annihilate it. So they get a pass on that.

It seems like the Palestinian people need nukes, because they're surrounded by a hostile neighbour who desires to annihilate them and annex their territory.

True.

The Netanyahu faction of the Israeli population has pretty much allowed its ethnic cleansing ambitions to be exposed by the recent events.

Trouble is ...Israel could in theory nuke the capitals of its' Arab neighbors (Amman, Cairo, Damascus)if they threatened her and survive.

But since both the West Bank and Gaza are even smaller Russian dolls nested inside the small Russian doll of Israel...neither Israel nor Palestine can nuke each other ...without making themselves into...glowing radioactive zombies! It would be like you attacking a burglar in your home with an army flamethrower.

100% agreed. I don't think Palestine would be able to use them effectively to attack Israel, instead they'd be analogous to what Israel calls the Samson option.

Hmmm...

A buddy of mine (who had recently gotten involved with a Fundy church) and I were watching the 1950 movie "Samson and Delilah" starring Victor Mature and Angela Lansbury.

I commented that Samson was "history's first suicide bomber. And he became that even before the invention of gunpowder".

My buddy got a bit offended for some reason.

But I didnt realize that Israel had a military doctrine of that name.

Truth can be very offensive in the some situations.

The Sampson option would be theoretically used when it became clear Israel is done for. At that point they would think since another Holocaust is happening this time at least others are going to be wiped out.

I understand that and I would argue this would ultimately be analogous, attaching a much larger price tag to the next Nakba.

What's in it for the USA?

They don't just shovel cash over there and turn a blind eye for nothing in return.

I have heard of individuals, suicide bombers, with a bomb belt threatening to blow themselves up if they don't have their way, but never before a suicide nation.

There is some Jewish history there.
Siege of Masada



Samson Option is similar to the concept of Mutual Assured Destruction which was America’s policy during the cold war.
Mutual Assured Destruction

I don't think the U.S.A. or any other major power should invade Israel. I do think the U.S.A. should stop supporting Israel.

In order for that to happen, we need Zionism to go out of fashion amongst both American Jews and American Christians.

Fortunately this seems to be a growing trend among young American Jews, although still far from a majority of American Jews.

Among Christians, it's complicated. As far as I can tell, leading figures in at least some of the older Protestant denominations are listening more and more to Palestinian Christians. However, those denominations are shrinking. The only branch of Christianity that seems to be growing is neo-charismatic "non-denominational" churches, many of which still tend to be staunchly Christian Zionist, as far as I can tell.

As for Catholics, as far as I am aware, the Catholic Church has never fully embraced Zionism, but never condemned it either. If I recall correctly, the Pope did condemn the invasion of Gaza not too long ago, but it is unclear to me how many Catholics are even aware of this, much less agree with him. And it is unclear to me how many Catholics are even aware that there is a Catholic church in Gaza. I suspect that most Catholics' views on Israel are informed not by any religious considerations, but just by what they happen to hear from whatever their personal favorite news sources happen to be. I suspect that many Catholics are vaguely aware that there are some Catholic churches in the Holy Land, but might not yet have put two and two together to realize that those churches are attended by ... Palestinians!

(EDIT: Digging up info about Zionism and the Catholic Church now. Will post about this later, in my separate thread on Christian Zionism.)

I think we should all encourage Christians, of whatever stripe, to listen to Palestinian Christians.