"Racial" makeup of Israel

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Of course antisemites will continue to mischaracterize the Gaza War as a white vs. brown anticolonialist struggle.

Not just antisemites but people who live in countries where most Jews are Ashkenazi and who view the world primarily through the lens of intersectionality.

No doubt this mischaracterization has intensified the spectrum of Pro Palestinian
advocacy to a significant degree. OTOH the false belief that Israel is a white country fighting brown people is a factor in mainstream support of Israel.

It’s not like all those groups are treated equally. It’s worth noting that the Israeli government has received a lot of criticism for its treatment of its Muslim and black Jew populations over the years, demonstrating that a country can be ethnically diverse and yet be anti-diversity (at least towards certain demographics). There’s a plethora of articles on this stuff.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/11/70226411 ... them-alone

https://mepc.org/commentary/ethiopian-j ... ism-israel

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 68800.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023 ... -is-global

Criticizing the Israeli government does not necessarily signify that one is antisemitic. No government should be above scrutiny. This is part of the problem that I have with Zionism right now. Any valid criticism of the Israeli government seems to automatically make one antisemitic to some people. It’s extremely tiresome and the potential ramifications of that, especially considering their current leadership and current behavior, are frightening.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 17 Jan 2024, 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Actually a truly "intersectional" view of Jews would acknowledge the different racial groups among Jews and their differing situations. See, for example: The Diaspora Within: Mizrahi Jews from Minneapolis to Jerusalem.

By the way, "Arabs" (in the sense of Arabic-speaking peoples) encompass a range of racial groups and skin hues too.

Be that as it may, although organized Zionism did indeed originate in Europe, that fact, in itself, is not what makes it settler-colonialism. What makes it settler-colonialism is not its racial makeup or its skin hue, but rather its behaviors, e.g. the 1948 Israeli "War of Independence" that was really a war of expulsion of the majority of Palestinian Arabs.

The problem with Israel is not anyone's skin color. Nor it it the fact that Israel is Jewish. The problem with Israel is the manner in which it was founded.

I can easily imagine an alternate universe in which the founding of Israel could have been A-OK. Had various groups of Jews gradually migrated to the Levant (what is now Israel/Palestine plus Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Cyprus) over a period of several centuries, to the point of becoming a majority in some parts of the Levant by 1918, then it would have been perfectly natural to form a Jewish state out of the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, in whichever parts of the Levant happened to be majority-Jewish at that time. That would have been true "self-determination."

On the other hand, what happened in 1948, in real life, was not true "self-determination" but the mass expulsion of the vast majority of the population of the part of Palestine that had been arbitrarily designated by the British to be given to the Jews, who were still only a small minority there at that time.

The hypothetical Israel of the above alternate universe might still have gotten into a series of territorial wars with its neighbors, but probably nothing so unjust or intractable as the current real-life Israel/Palestine situation.

I agree the problem is not about skin color that is a western interpretation that Pro Palistinian activists from the region or have ties to region have found useful to employ. It is not about Jews and religion in general in an alternate universe. I remember reading a book by journalist Thomas Freedman about the Arab-Israeli conflict decades ago. I do not remember much about the book but I do remember him writing the average “Arab” in the street commonly used “Jews” not “Israelis”. From what I have seen while not universal anymore that is still often true. The certainty faith often brings does factor in to the unwillingness to compromise and the willingness to endure a lot of pain for a long period of time.

In a hypothetical Israel there was no WWII or Holocaust thus less refugees and a less exhausted British. In this hypothetical scenario the pace of the immigration would have been a lot slower, those this did immigrate would have had less of a sense of urgency, and the British would have been more willing to crush Jewish terrorism.

Hypothetically the zionists could have decided America was the promised land and as discussed elsewhere it unofficially was but by the 1940’s that gig was up. In 1939 a ship of refugees trying to escape the emerging holocaust was turned away. After the holocaust waves of zionists trying to come here with the intent of creating a socialist/Marxist state would have been blown out of the water.

Hypothetically the Palestinians would not have been as alarmed if there had not been eight previous crusades.

Hypothetically the Arab armies might have worked together and had a modicum of competence and the Jewish State of Israel would have lasted one or two days, maybe a week. Then there might of been a Palestinian state but more likely Syria, Transjorden, and Eqypt would have carved Palestine up. There still might have been a Palestinian insurgency but with less of a religious and racial angle there might have been less ooomph to it and certainly it would not be animating too many people in the west.

If, If, but, but.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 Jan 2024, 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

To me, an ironic take on the whole Middle East situation is that the Israelis won a war they were supposed to lose, and the world has dealt with the consequences ever since.

Not just the mere fact that they "won a war they were supposed to lose," but the fact that they expelled the majority of the population. That's the crucial part of the story that has tended to get neglected in Western tellings.

A big mistake, not just morally but strategically. Blaming "Jews" in general resulted in persecution of Jews in many parts of the Middle East, resulting in those Jews needing to migrate guess where, compounding the problem.


Yep. Originally the Palestinian resistance was mostly secular nationalist. Over the years it became more and more Islamist, for the reason you mention above.


While this would have been less than ideal for the Palestinians, at least, in this scenario, it's unlikely that the Palestinians would have been expelled from their land en masse. THAT is the crucial difference. They would just be living in different, smaller empires than they were before.

Frankly, the expulsion was both sides, the Jews in Arab countries were also expelled from their homelands.

Wasn't the expulsion of Jews from Arab and Muslim countries, in and around 1948, primarily a response to the expulsion of Palestinian Arabs from Israel?

If so, it was a totally counterproductive response, because where did those Jews end up going? Israel, of course, thereby making things even worse for the Palestinians.

To me this is just one of the more glaring examples of why it is important for pro-Palestinian protesters to oppose anti-Jewish bigotry also and avoid doing things that would make life more difficult for Jews outside of Israel.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 19 Jan 2024, 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A response that kinda proved Zionism’s point, don’t you think? iIt was a wave of hysteric sectarianism/Islamist driven pogroms mostly.

As I see it, they allowed themselves to be caught up in a vicious circle of ethnic cleansing, resulting in the tragic destruction of age-old historic Jewish communities, some of which (e.g. in Iraq) had been there since Bible times.

As I said in my previous post (edited while you were in process of replying to it, apparently): To me this is one of the more glaring examples of why I think it is important for pro-Palestinian protesters to oppose anti-Jewish bigotry also and avoid doing things that would make life more difficult for Jews outside of Israel.

There are some who do have it worse than others. Afro-Palestinians have a battle on multiple fronts in Israel.

They have experienced prejudice, with some Palestinian Arabs referring to them as "slaves" (abeed) and they have been pushed into specific envclaves where they are forced to live. Their Arab neighbourhoods are referred to as "slaves' prison" (habs al-abeed), which is also reference to their colour which has led to objections across Palestine against them marrying ethnic Arab Palestinians
https://atlantablackstar.com/2016/03/29 ... ccupation/

I have flagged this as an issue before that POC need to be cautious about rushing to defend Palestinians when they appear to discriminate against their own minorities,

There probably would have been some sort of nationalist insurgency. If that were the case instead of their homes been leveled by Israelis in Gaza, their homes would have been leveled by Arab countries in Palistine.

Okay fine, it's a white-passing vs. brown anticolonialist struggle. What's your point?