Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

"Racial" makeup of Israel

Page 2 of 2 [ 21 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,811
Location: New York City (Queens)

19 Jan 2024, 11:32 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Hypothetically the Arab armies might have worked together and had a modicum of competence and the Jewish State of Israel would have lasted one or two days, maybe a week. Then there might of been a Palestinian state but more likely Syria, Transjorden, and Eqypt would have carved Palestine up.

While this would have been less than ideal for the Palestinians, at least, in this scenario, it's unlikely that the Palestinians would have been expelled from their land en masse. THAT is the crucial difference. They would just be living in different, smaller empires than they were before.

There probably would have been some sort of nationalist insurgency. If that were the case instead of their homes been leveled by Israelis in Gaza, their homes would have been leveled by Arab countries in Palistine.

Whether there would have been a nationalist insurgency would have depended a lot on how they were treated by the countries their lands became part of. It is not inconceivable that they could have been treated okay, or at least okay enough to make a nationalist insurgency not worth the trouble. Even if there were an ethnic clash, it might or might not have been severe enough to result in ethnic cleansing.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Last edited by Mona Pereth on 19 Jan 2024, 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,811
Location: New York City (Queens)

19 Jan 2024, 11:42 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Okay fine, it's a white-passing vs. brown anticolonialist struggle. What's your point?

Arabs aren't all "brown" either. Many Arabs are just as white-passing as many Jews, and some Jews are "brown."

As I said earlier in this thread, Israel is indeed a settler-colonialist state, but what makes it settler-colonialist is not anyone's "race" or skin hue, but rather Israel's behaviors toward the Palestinians. See also the separate thread Israel/Palestine and settler-colonialism.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,483
Location: Long Island, New York

20 Jan 2024, 6:45 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Hypothetically the Arab armies might have worked together and had a modicum of competence and the Jewish State of Israel would have lasted one or two days, maybe a week. Then there might of been a Palestinian state but more likely Syria, Transjorden, and Eqypt would have carved Palestine up.

While this would have been less than ideal for the Palestinians, at least, in this scenario, it's unlikely that the Palestinians would have been expelled from their land en masse. THAT is the crucial difference. They would just be living in different, smaller empires than they were before.

There probably would have been some sort of nationalist insurgency. If that were the case instead of their homes been leveled by Israelis in Gaza, their homes would have been leveled by Arab countries in Palistine.

Whether there would have been a nationalist insurgency would have depended a lot on how they were treated by the countries their lands became part of. It is not inconceivable that they could have been treated okay, or at least okay enough to make a nationalist insurgency not worth the trouble. Even if there were an ethnic clash, it might or might not have been severe enough to result in ethnic cleansing.

Palistinian Nationalism was a thing by the 1940s. There has been plenty of cleansing in that region of the world that had nothing to do with the Jews so it is quite plausible the Palestinians would have been cleansed in Palestine.

As I mentioned earlier without religious fanatism arguably the chances would have been less and if a clash happened it would have not lasted. as long.

I believe that without the perception of race, the publicity, and the outrage in the West the hypothetical clashes would have received would have been a lot less. Because of its location in the holy land more than the Syrian Civil War but not nearly as much as the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


MushroomPrincess
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 335
Location: Turtle Island

20 Jan 2024, 1:06 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
MushroomPrincess wrote:
Okay fine, it's a white-passing vs. brown anticolonialist struggle. What's your point?

Arabs aren't all "brown" either. Many Arabs are just as white-passing as many Jews, and some Jews are "brown."

As I said earlier in this thread, Israel is indeed a settler-colonialist state, but what makes it settler-colonialist is not anyone's "race" or skin hue, but rather Israel's behaviors toward the Palestinians. See also the separate thread Israel/Palestine and settler-colonialism.

Well, that's a pretty fair point. You're right, any discussion about whether or not the Israli Jews are white or brown is just a distraction from the fact that these maybe-white-maybe-brown people are doing a genocide.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

20 Jan 2024, 8:05 pm

I think this thread should acknowledge that for both Jews and Palestinians there is an ethnic standard (in terms of identity)_ that is self-evidently white-adjacent (let's not please kid ourselves). Why exactly should a Palestinian identify as "brown"? they (like most Arabs) are phenotypically not that much different from Italians or Greeks.

In Israel and Palestine identity is governed first by religion. But If you corner a Jew or Arab and make them identify with north or east Africa or South Asia (the nearest brown people) they will look at you like you are crazy.