Poor level of suppourt in college

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IsabellaLinton
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02 Feb 2024, 4:49 pm

cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I used to teach Ethics. Was the paper graded by his professor or a TA? I'd be surprised if she graded it herself. Also the bell curve / grading standards are set by the department so she wouldn't have much wiggle room if he were entirely off topic or used the wrong style of persuasion. That being said, your son should have received a grading rubric with detailed descriptors with the assignment, and a completed rubric showing how he scored in each area of the task (planning, executing etc.) Was it a first-year class?


Excellent points. especially about the TAs. In my experience TAs are reliant on the professor for guidance and often "wing it" when it comes to marking which doesn't help the student.



Profs are ultimately accountable. They need to review and approve the TAs' grading before it's returned to students. TA's are also graded on their teaching ability so they would be penalised for not following the prof's / department's standards.


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cyberdad
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02 Feb 2024, 5:33 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I used to teach Ethics. Was the paper graded by his professor or a TA? I'd be surprised if she graded it herself. Also the bell curve / grading standards are set by the department so she wouldn't have much wiggle room if he were entirely off topic or used the wrong style of persuasion. That being said, your son should have received a grading rubric with detailed descriptors with the assignment, and a completed rubric showing how he scored in each area of the task (planning, executing etc.) Was it a first-year class?


Excellent points. especially about the TAs. In my experience TAs are reliant on the professor for guidance and often "wing it" when it comes to marking which doesn't help the student.



Profs are ultimately accountable. They need to review and approve the TAs' grading before it's returned to students. TA's are also graded on their teaching ability so they would be penalised for not following the prof's / department's standards.


I think TAs are also evaluated (they need the student evaluations for promotion). Most professors are required to conduct marking moderation prior to releasing grades. However the level of scrutiny conducted is contingent on how time poor or how much the professor invests in the unit. Often they are also involved in research projects/grant applications and publications so it might not be a priority.



IsabellaLinton
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02 Feb 2024, 5:47 pm

They're also required to supervise MRPs, but not necessarily for their own TAs.

The department sets standards for their course grade distribution and students' overall CGPA.


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cyberdad
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02 Feb 2024, 10:04 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
The department sets standards for their course grade distribution and students' overall CGPA.


Marking to a bell curve has become a hot button issue with student unions who claim students are being unfairly marked down for reasons out of their control. Departments usually advertise they don't set standards nowadays but that grade distribution "magically" falls within a "desired" range for X > 200 students.



IsabellaLinton
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02 Feb 2024, 10:06 pm

It's relative and a natural distribution.
Papers can't be equal.
There will always be good, better and best.


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cyberdad
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03 Feb 2024, 12:21 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's relative and a natural distribution.
Papers can't be equal.
There will always be good, better and best.


The rating is based on how closely the paper addresses the marking rubric



Fenn
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03 Feb 2024, 4:46 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but software engineering graduates need to be ISO certified in addition to having a basic degree so the training provider + education materials also have to go through industry accreditation. Your professor is therefore subject to industry audit of professional training standards which is above and beyond regular accreditation of higher education standards which might be applied to a lecturer/professor of more general fields in arts or science.


Computer Science in the USA where I live requires no certification of any kind. Knowing the job usually is more important than anything else. For example my college roommate went on an internship and never came back to complete his degree. He has been happily working every since. Not all fields are like that but some are.

The point I was making is that teachers who are unreasonably strict and treat students as competitors are NOT very “Real World”. Most real world bosses I have had are not like that.


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Fenn
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03 Feb 2024, 5:04 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's relative and a natural distribution.
Papers can't be equal.
There will always be good, better and best.


If your goal is to simply grade your student relative to one another and place them in order from best to worse, that can always be done. But it isn’t teaching. It is grading.

If the goal is teaching then every student should have the possibility of learning. It is not unreasonable to, as a teacher, have the goal of reaching and improving every student in your class. A good teacher should be able to (and want to) teach all the students.
Suppose you are teaching AP Physics. You could make it your goal to have more of your students get a 4 on the AP exam every year. Or you could make it your goal to have the same number of 1s 2s 3s and 4s every year to perfectly match the bell curve. A real Teacher would tend to the first goal. A real Grader would tend towards the second.

And, that is not a hypothetical example.


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Fenn
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03 Feb 2024, 5:51 pm

https://www.princetonreview.com/medical/mcat-test-prep

Princeton Review offers a money back guarantee on their MCAT training: what do you think, are they more concerned with teaching or grading?

Landmark College are more interested in teaching than Grading. But you have to pay twice what other colleges ask.

https://www.landmark.edu/

West Chester Univertity offers different levels of support for different prices

https://www.wcupa.edu/deputy-provost/dc ... apply.aspx


SJU Has a program for High School Graduates who are not perusing a college degree

https://www.sju.edu/kinney/autism-servi ... ay-program

and another for College students

https://www.sju.edu/kinney/autism-servi ... t-services

And others

https://www.sju.edu/kinney/autism-services


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cyberdad
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03 Feb 2024, 6:58 pm

Fenn wrote:
The point I was making is that teachers who are unreasonably strict and treat students as competitors are NOT very “Real World”. Most real world bosses I have had are not like that.


What do you mean by competitors?



cyberdad
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03 Feb 2024, 7:15 pm

Fenn wrote:
Computer Science in the USA where I live requires no certification of any kind. Knowing the job usually is more important than anything else. For example my college roommate went on an internship and never came back to complete his degree. He has been happily working every since. Not all fields are like that but some are.


Yes my bother has a degree in electrical engineering (which he never used) before moving to computers and software engineering. He's been a freelance software engineer for 35 years and managed projects for > 100 companies.

He's been telling me for years that coding doesn't require a degree, just patience for repetitive tasks and focus. The industry is a great place for people on the spectrum and he's worked with many. However all of them have at least a college/tech diploma where they get some basic certification before they are let loose as backroom eSolutions software developers. But yes you are right, coding doesn't require certification, most companies can train their staff. Companies he's worked for don't bother checking qualification, they just do competency testing of recruits.

There is, however, an oversuppy of university graduates. He's getting more recruits now with masters degrees. So in a competitive job market having paper qualification is still an advantage when you are getting a foot in the door, but as you say, once you have the experience/software certification then paper qualification is irrelevant.



IsabellaLinton
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03 Feb 2024, 9:38 pm

Fenn wrote:
If the goal is teaching then every student should have the possibility of learning. It is not unreasonable to, as a teacher, have the goal of reaching and improving every student in your class. A good teacher should be able to (and want to) teach all the students.


Are you suggesting I'm not a good teacher?

I repeat:

IsabellaLinton wrote:
If they weren't available for office hours when he was writing the paper, and that was the only feedback he received, it's really quite pathetic. Has your son reached out to the Chair?


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Fenn
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05 Feb 2024, 2:54 pm

Thank you all for sharing your insights on various aspects of education. I appreciate the diverse perspectives. Let's refocus on the original question about learning support in college.

Can anyone provide more information or personal experiences related to that topic?

(I also want to extend my apologies for contributed to veering off track.)

Let's revisit the original question about learning support in college, especially regarding students with learning disabilities. Does anyone have experiences or insights into the support provided in UK colleges during the years 2006-2008 or currently? It would be helpful to focus on this aspect to assist the OP.

Thank you!


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15 Feb 2024, 8:46 am

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-gu ... university

autism.org.uk - Starting college or university


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cyberdad
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15 Feb 2024, 2:54 pm

Fenn wrote:
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/transitions/scotland/starting-college-or-university

autism.org.uk - Starting college or university


My daughter started college this year and although she is enjoying it (so far) the "social" aspect is already beginning to be a concern. As an older teenager she craves attention and when it isn't reciprocated or met with unkind words she gets upset. Fortunately there is counselling support for disabled students on campus and I am hoping she will be able to focus on work (when she puts her mind to something she is interested she is very capable) and not get distracted by silly social stuff. Managing a teenage girl is difficult anyway, life is one big drama after another.



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16 Feb 2024, 11:01 am

Jamesy wrote:
When I transferred from a mainstream school and attended a popular/big college in 2006-2008 I remember the learning support I got there was very poor.

Is this normal for a lot of colleges in the UK when it comes to students with learning disabilities etc?


You'll be even less impressed with the support you get from employers that require a college degree. Having lived with this in the workplace for quite a long time, I respectfully suggest that autistic accommodations are functionally a crutch.

A crutch can be very helpful, but don't use one unless you have to, and do everything you can think of to avoid becoming dependent on it, or you'll be in a world of hurt when one isn't available.