There may be hope for Christian Evangelicals.

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Tim_Tex
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06 Feb 2024, 4:31 pm

There is no hope. We need to consider banning religion in the U.S.


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Harmonie
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06 Feb 2024, 6:14 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
There is no hope. We need to consider banning religion in the U.S.


Nah, that would feed into their persecution narratives. Or actually, it would make their persecution narratives come true. I'm not for banning religion. We are a nation of freedom of religion. I just need the Christians to understand that freedom of religion applies to everyone, not just them. And them putting their supposed religious beliefs into law is violating my freedoms. They need to stop it.

I'm not sure how we are to handle this issue. I'm afraid there may need to be government regulation into religion. I hate saying it. It breaches the separation of church and state and can be easily violated to harm actual innocuous religions/practices. Even though the white Evangelicals have breached it themselves, it's still a great principle that must be upheld even when the other side isn't holding to their end of the bargain.

I know one thing for sure, some Christian leaders/churches have taken the lack of accountability and law on them and run with it to do outrageous things like prosperity gospel (which is a blatant scam that would not fly outside of religion).

Of course, as we all know, they've flagrantly violated the Johnson Amendment and should be punished for it. Sadly, the IRS doesn't do anything about it. These pastors are all up at their pulpit preaching the gospel of Donald Trump, and like... nothing is being done about it. Our nation is a failed experiment it seems.


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slam_thunderhide
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07 Feb 2024, 7:30 am

Fnord wrote:
There may be hope for REAL Christian Evangelicals. No, I am not talking about our Lord and Savior (although I should).

I am referring to a few short paragraphs in a recent CNN news blurb.

Chen predicts that "America will become more secular, and Christianity less conservative" as non-White evangelicals increase in number.

Chen says the browning of Christianity in the US owes much to the passage of the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act. That law paved the way for millions of immigrants from Asian, Africa, and Latin American countries to come to the US.

"When we tell the story about American Christianity, we might start with the Puritans -- it is basically a European story", says Chen, author of "Work Pray Code: When Work Becomes Religion in Silicon Valley". "But what if we were to tell the story of American Christianity by what it is starting to look like and how it is changing today? That story begins in a place like Taiwan, Korea, or Mexico".


Source:  This CNN Article 

Basically, while there is no "Great Replacement" conspiracy, there is a steady (if slow) increase in the fraction of Christian Evangelicals who identify as non-white. Eventually (some may say) this non-white fraction may become greater than 50%.

(Okay, that last last sentence is pure speculation on my part; but a man can dream, can't he?)

If that ever happens, what will become of the version of American history written by Ms. Lily White and her child Jimmy Crow?


Well there’s a lot to unpack here.

Firstly, it is ridiculous for you to whine about the supposed racialism of a religious community in the US while for the past four months you’ve been proudly displaying the flag of Israel as your avatar. That’s the same Israel that is currently governed by some of the most extreme racial supremacists and religious fundamentalists on the planet – the same Israel that’s spent the last four months carrying out a genocide against the Palestinians of Gaza.

Secondly, your support for the changing demographics of the US might hold more weight if you’d actually chosen to remain living there instead of emigrating.

Thirdly, the claims in the CNN article you’ve linked to about the current reach of “White Christian Nationalism” in the US are nonsense, being largely based on flawed polling and media alarmism. And I say this as an atheist, not as someone who cares about defending Christianity from the pointing and sputtering of left-liberals. I’ll post further on this when I have the time.



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07 Feb 2024, 7:53 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
1950s America, which Evangelicals and Catholics are trying to recreate, was as least as bad as Nazi Germany.


Didn't you used to be a Republican Tim Tex?
I suppose that was before you figured out that you'd fit in better on this forum by moaning about conservatives.
I'm still puzzled why you ever identified as a Republican in the first place. Did you toss a coin for it?



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07 Feb 2024, 7:58 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Why assume people of color will be less fundamentalist?


Good point. This highlights another flaw with the CNN article quoted in the OP as far as I'm concerned.



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07 Feb 2024, 11:26 am

Of course Christians will tend to get less conservative over time; they are reactionaries, and since they have no actual sincerely-held beliefs to sincerely hold onto, they'll continue to believe whatever it's convenient to believe, and quietly revise their history to make sure it look like they were never in the wrong.

In another fifty years' time, Christians be pretending that they "always" supported women's reproductive freedoms (and LGBTQ rights etc.), just like they "always" opposed segregation (and slavery etc.); wishy-washy historical revisionism is the one thing this religion seems to be particularly good at.



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07 Feb 2024, 12:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Thats all too true.

In fact the Dems caved and agreed to kick immigrant ass in the current bill...but the GOP is willing to...sell Israel down the river...sell Ukraine down the river...and f**k over the US itself... by turning down the bill...just so Trump can get credit for kicking immigrant ass when he gets reelected next year.


?......?...........?..........?.......? Early in the day ehh..? :skull: ....yes am quite sure this must be all about Trump in the great end of these things . :roll: Perhaps not ? :nerdy:...Sounds "inciteful" to me .


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naturalplastic
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07 Feb 2024, 2:19 pm

Jakki wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Thats all too true.

In fact the Dems caved and agreed to kick immigrant ass in the current bill...but the GOP is willing to...sell Israel down the river...sell Ukraine down the river...and f**k over the US itself... by turning down the bill...just so Trump can get credit for kicking immigrant ass when he gets reelected next year.


?......?...........?..........?.......? Early in the day ehh..? :skull: ....yes am quite sure this must be all about Trump in the great end of these things . :roll: Perhaps not ? :nerdy:...Sounds "inciteful" to me .


Its in American news. There was a bill in congress about controlling immigrants at the southern border. It was a hard ass bill in which the Dems pretty much gave the GOP everything the GOP wanted, and yet...the GOP turned it down. So for the rest of the year we will have no law controlling the border. The reason the GOP did that was just to make Biden look bad. So...the GOP is willing to f**k over the nation just reelect Trump.



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07 Feb 2024, 3:24 pm

Okay , i get this segway into the Trump issue now.. TY .. not expecting Trump could get elected to a janitorial position
in the Guatanemo Prison toilets anymore . IMHO ....


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08 Feb 2024, 6:10 am

slam_thunderhide wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
1950s America, which Evangelicals and Catholics are trying to recreate, was as least as bad as Nazi Germany.


Didn't you used to be a Republican Tim Tex?
I suppose that was before you figured out that you'd fit in better on this forum by moaning about conservatives.
I'm still puzzled why you ever identified as a Republican in the first place. Did you toss a coin for it?


Moderate Republican, but Donald Trump and Greg Abbott changed everything. with wanting a theocracy.


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Tim_Tex
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08 Feb 2024, 6:16 am

Harmonie wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
There is no hope. We need to consider banning religion in the U.S.


Nah, that would feed into their persecution narratives. Or actually, it would make their persecution narratives come true. I'm not for banning religion. We are a nation of freedom of religion. I just need the Christians to understand that freedom of religion applies to everyone, not just them. And them putting their supposed religious beliefs into law is violating my freedoms. They need to stop it.

I'm not sure how we are to handle this issue. I'm afraid there may need to be government regulation into religion. I hate saying it. It breaches the separation of church and state and can be easily violated to harm actual innocuous religions/practices. Even though the white Evangelicals have breached it themselves, it's still a great principle that must be upheld even when the other side isn't holding to their end of the bargain.

I know one thing for sure, some Christian leaders/churches have taken the lack of accountability and law on them and run with it to do outrageous things like prosperity gospel (which is a blatant scam that would not fly outside of religion).

Of course, as we all know, they've flagrantly violated the Johnson Amendment and should be punished for it. Sadly, the IRS doesn't do anything about it. These pastors are all up at their pulpit preaching the gospel of Donald Trump, and like... nothing is being done about it. Our nation is a failed experiment it seems.


A compromise would be criminalizing the following verses from the Bible (and similar verses from the Quran):

Leviticus 18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

Verses in the Quran that dictate what women can or can't do would also be criminalized.

Also, both books should be edited to remove the aforementioned verses, to state that fornication and non-procreational sex are acceptable, and that hell doesn't exist.


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