Gorillas Are Monkeys, and So Are You!

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15 Feb 2024, 3:24 pm

If we respect the notion of monophyly, all apes are monkeys in the same way that all birds are dinosaurs.

Our dry noses and inability to synthesize vitamin C confirms it. :nerdy:

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15 Feb 2024, 3:27 pm

That explains why I like to climb trees. I bet it’d be even more fun with a tail.

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Stormyweathers
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17 Feb 2024, 1:07 am

I'm a chemist. My wife is the biologist, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure that apes, monkeys, and homo sapiens all descended from a common ancestor.

We are ... well, I guess you might call us species siblings if you follow the misuse of that word.

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17 Feb 2024, 1:08 am

Monkeys and apes might be a little peeved to be called human

Stormyweathers
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17 Feb 2024, 1:25 am

cyberdad wrote:

Monkeys and apes might be a little peeved to be called human

Yeah, I feel that.

funeralxempire
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17 Feb 2024, 2:36 am

cyberdad wrote:

Monkeys and apes might be a little peeved to be called human

That's not how monophyly works.

All apes are monkeys, but not all monkeys are apes.
All humans are apes (and therefore monkeys), but not all apes (or monkeys) are humans.

funeralxempire
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17 Feb 2024, 3:00 am

Stormyweathers wrote:

I'm a chemist. My wife is the biologist, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure that apes, monkeys, and homo sapiens all descended from a common ancestor.

Yes, apes emerged from within Catarrhini and continue to bear most of the diagnostic identifiers associated with them, like dry noses and the inability to produce vitamin C.

The point is that there's no logical way to define monkey that doesn't also include all apes, just like there's no way to exclude birds from the reptilian family tree.

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17 Feb 2024, 4:22 am

funeralxempire wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Monkeys and apes might be a little peeved to be called human

That's not how monophyly works.

All apes are monkeys, but not all monkeys are apes.
All humans are apes (and therefore monkeys), but not all apes (or monkeys) are humans.

I was imagining an erudite chimp with his leg crossed sitting on a tree stump responding with a "I say, that's rather a low blow" while smoking a cigar.

funeralxempire
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17 Feb 2024, 4:23 am

cyberdad wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Monkeys and apes might be a little peeved to be called human

That's not how monophyly works.

All apes are monkeys, but not all monkeys are apes.
All humans are apes (and therefore monkeys), but not all apes (or monkeys) are humans.

I was imagining an erudite chimp with his leg crossed sitting on a tree stump responding with a "I say, that's rather a low blow" while smoking a cigar.

It's a good visual, but bad logic. :nerdy:

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17 Feb 2024, 4:28 am

funeralxempire wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Monkeys and apes might be a little peeved to be called human

That's not how monophyly works.

All apes are monkeys, but not all monkeys are apes.
All humans are apes (and therefore monkeys), but not all apes (or monkeys) are humans.

I was imagining an erudite chimp with his leg crossed sitting on a tree stump responding with a "I say, that's rather a low blow" while smoking a cigar.

It's a good visual, but bad logic. :nerdy:

I'm referring to our "chimpy" friend responding to being compared to humans

funeralxempire
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17 Feb 2024, 4:32 am

cyberdad wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Monkeys and apes might be a little peeved to be called human

That's not how monophyly works.

All apes are monkeys, but not all monkeys are apes.
All humans are apes (and therefore monkeys), but not all apes (or monkeys) are humans.

I was imagining an erudite chimp with his leg crossed sitting on a tree stump responding with a "I say, that's rather a low blow" while smoking a cigar.

It's a good visual, but bad logic. :nerdy:

I'm referring to our "chimpy" friend responding to being compared to humans

Yes, I understand. It's a funny visual, but if he thinks calling humans monkeys means he's being called a human he needs a lesson in logic.

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17 Feb 2024, 4:51 am

Human logic - I do what everyone else does
Monkey logic - oohh ooohhh I do what my fellow monkeys do
Chimp logic - Damn, this Jane Goodall is no nosy. let's put on her show for her boys

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17 Feb 2024, 4:56 am

All dogs are mammals.

All humans are mammals.

Therefore, dogs are humans.

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belijojo
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