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paolo
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Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:29 pm

In “Last days”, Gus van Sant’s movie about the mental agony of Kurt Cobain, there is a particularly moving scene in which the character who is supposed to represent Cobain, has to submit to a conversation with two salesmen trying to sell him a subscription to the Yellow Pages. He endures stoically the two, while he tries internally to make some sense of his life. I haven’t found up to now such a perfect representation of the situation of an autistic person, trying only to be polite, out of weakness, more than out of kindness. The absurdity of the situation is heartbreaking and I would advise to use this piece of cinema to explain what autism is about, in terms of suffering, to “normal” people who don’t understand it.
About Cobain:
“Looking back on what's known of his life, one wonders if he didn't have Asperger's. The social awkwardness, the mood swings, the unexplained physical pain, the high IQ and superior verbal skills: all speak to the possibility of undiagnosed Asperger syndrome. He felt torn by his intense need for solitude and the conflicting need to finally be recognized for something; he was drawn to the idea of the rock-star lifestyle. but the reality of it was devastating and left him panicked and afraid. People who looked at him as a piece of shit before he was Kurt Cobain from Nirvana suddenly wanted to be his best friends and bragged about how they knew him back then. He didn't know who to trust and just wanted to be left alone. By the time he realized he wasn't cut out to be a big rock star, it was too late”.


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NeantHumain
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Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:45 pm

The lyrics of his songs are pretty NT, but it still sounds cool.



poopylungstuffing
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Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:48 pm

my guess would be depressive introvert but not necc. AS.



queerpuppy
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Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:52 pm

As a kid he was diagnosed with ADHD.

Not that that precludes Asperger's of course, but there are overlaps between ADHD and Asperger's, and he may have had all of them :o)

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SinginCowboy
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Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:41 pm

A lot of doctors in the US didn't know much of anything about AS until the last few years. I was diagnosed ADHD as a kid, and my doctor knew it wasn't quite right, but the ritalin helped me. He never understood the small clues, like hypersensitivity, lack of eye-contact, and stimming. When my mom took me to a neurologist, she decided not to trust him as soon as he said the word autism. She wasn't familier with the spectrum, so she didn't understand what he meant.



paolo
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Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:11 pm

In general I think we have the tendency, here and elsewhere, to treat categories like autism, Asperger, ADHD like fetishes. This has happened with bipolarity, schizophrenia and many other syndromes. I think the mind, emotions and mental abilities are connected in very complex ways. In the case of many illnesses you have smallpox, flue, TBC, pneumonia etc. In the case of mind we have not and probably will never have such simplicity and clear cut situations of failure as we have in failures of specific organs, or aggression of traceable bacteria or viruses. Neurologists say that the brain is one of the most complex apparatuses in the universe.
In the case of Kurt Cobain I am not so much interested in attributing him to one or other of the disabilities labeled in neurology or pathology. The situation which I have seen in the scene of Gus van Sant’s movie is one which is very common, I think, in our experience and may help explaining, in its grotesqueness, the dissonances in communication that may obstruct social life.



TobyZ
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:13 pm

it has just come to my mind that he was, and I found this thread with a Google Search! His suicide letter in particular and how it expresses how unhappy he was.

the clearly had differnt way of internal thinking, as expressed by his song lyrics and music style.

and his suicide letter clearly shows the social disconnect.

Plus, clearly he did NOT have an NT wife. And drugs don't help, they can make things worse.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:04 pm

I realize this doesn't help, but, Courtney Love, Kurt Cobain's widow has been described as "slightly autistic". Whether Kurt was, I can't say, but Courtney has been refered to as autistic in print.



SabbraCadabra
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:38 pm

Speaking of Courtney Love, I was watching Man on the Moon the other day and wondering about Andy Kaufman...especially the scene near the beginning where he's at a restaurant and he's seperating all of his foods that are touching.

Edit: Sorry if I went off topic a little @_@ But I guess it kind of goes with the "understanding autism through movie scenes" bit.


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TobyZ
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:46 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Speaking of Courtney Love, I was watching Man on the Moon the other day and wondering about Andy Kaufman...especially the scene near the beginning where he's at a restaurant and he's seperating all of his foods that are touching.


I had the SAME thoughts as you just 8 hours ago. and him learning acting might have been an intellectual way to compensate for AS. And his obsession was that he was never not thinking of a joke.

And the way he took up meditation, but got kicked out for not behaving right. He was working on his self-control.



AlMightyAl
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:49 pm

I was pondering this too.
I am actually obsessed with Kurt Cobain at the moment, and I have been drawing him and listening to all of Nirvana's music.
I believe I stated this question quite a while ago in the chatbox.

Was this bumped because someone saw my picture?



kaitlyn_loves_music
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:23 pm

hmm idk interesting tho....
really courtney love seems like it tho????
she seems like a drunk/druggie reminds me of my mom for some odd reason :(



6ft4andmor
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:27 pm

The lead singer of System Of A Down has Aspergers.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:31 pm

kaitlyn_loves_music wrote:
hmm idk interesting tho....
really courtney love seems like it tho????
she seems like a drunk/druggie reminds me of my mom for some odd reason :(


It's true about Courtney Love. She was diagnosed at three. It's in her biographies.



TobyZ
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:35 pm

AlMightyAl wrote:
Was this bumped because someone saw my picture?



no, I bumped it. I've only on my 4th or 5th week of realization I have AS, and reading and thinking about my past all I can and organizing my experience and symptoms in a AS way. It's been very therapeutic to see the garbage built up in my mind that has been like toxins.

I recently re-watched the entire DVD set of West Wing. And I sort of associated with the fictional character of Toby Ziegler. Very accomplished in his field, but had violent conflict with a business partner - and very serious emotional issues with his brother's death (which got him fired and arrested), etc.

My first post on this forum was to see if anyone was a big fan of Toby Z and thought he fit many AS undiagnosed adult symptoms (as much as you can see on the outside).

Anyway, today i was thinking of both Andy Kaufman (man on the moon song played on the radio today while driving to get lunch).... and Kurt Cobain's suicide letter flashed in my mind and had new meaning.

I don't think I've seen your photo on the forum, and even if I did - I'm faceblind so I didn't notice it was Curt :) And i don't know curt very well, but I had read his suicide letter a few times in the past few years.

I encourage people to read it, any connection? http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Ve ... enote.html The use of the world "Empathy" really was on my head (you will see I started a thread on that word a few days ago). I've become hateful towards all humans in general. Only because it seems so easy for people to get along that have empathy. Only because I love and feel sorry for people too much I guess.

you won't get more clear explanation than this - it wasn't your photo ;)



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