California gay marriage foes set up for utter humiliation



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Griff
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06 Jun 2008, 1:48 pm

No. You might find this surprising, but the Latin populace has very similar attitudes to the white, non-Hispanic populace. Their youths are just as thuggish as any, but teenage brats don't seem to vary much across cultural or ethnic lines. The only group that consistently shows greater opposition to gay marriage is the black populace. American Latinos may be mostly blue collar, but they are still very successful due to their preservation of the nuclear family. Their ability to fall back on cousins, uncles, and so forth has prevented them from being hit as hard by poverty and economic problems. Homophobia is usually correlated with economic hardship. Well, the numbers say that the Latinos are poor, but their culture makes them rich in a way that we have all but forgotten. I honestly don't think that true homophobia ever really took root in the Latin population. Just typical teenage thuggishness, which is a universal. Otherwise, I think that our immigrants should be more recognized for their resilience and their integrity.

Besides, they're going to constitute the majority of the American voting population within a few more years. That'll make me a double-minority. Kissing up starting now would be wise. Consider yourself warned.



Fnord
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06 Jun 2008, 2:02 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
Say if you did vote on it, does anybody besides the person counting the vote and yourself have to know who you voted for? Afterall, your vote is meant to kept private, and the people counting these votes (whether in elections or referenda) are meant to sign statutory declarations that they will not disclose the inforamtion they come across. Which means the only way someone else could find out what you voted for would be if you told them yourself. Or maybe it doesn't work that way in the US, which means that no-one can mind their own business.

... none of which addresses the "What's in it for me?" aspect.

Griff wrote:
Sociological stability.

An intangible element, at best. At worst, a Non-Sequitur to the initial question, because is same-sex marriages would not benefit a single representative of dominant society, then same-sex marriage could not possibly benefit society as a whole. I am not asking about any benefits (perceptual, or actual) to society as a whole. I am asking how would same-sex marriage benefit me?

Griff wrote:
What do you have to gain? Let's first examine what you have to gain from ignoring the issue: absolutely nothing.

You've addressed a question of your own; one which is the opposite of what I've asked. This is called the "Strawman Fallacy", wherein you present a hypothetical condition, and then argue for or against it. Now address my question. Start with "Second, let us examine the direct benefits of same-sex marriage, which are..."

Griff wrote:
This issue will just keep coming back until we have closure. The gay community needs closure, and I am sure that you want your peace.

So it is now obvious - by your statement - that the "gay community" is threatening the rest of us with lack of peace until they get their way. This is called the "Appeal To Fear" and the "Argument From Adverse Consequences", and is a fallacious form of asserting one's argument. It is also very childish. The danger of using this fallacy is that it can also lead to other irrational emotions that can rebound upon the persuader, such as dislike and hate. Appeals to Fear seldom gain more than temporary compliance. Emotional and intellectual agreement will lag far behind and opposing ideas may actually be strengthened).


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oscuria
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06 Jun 2008, 2:31 pm

Griff wrote:
No. You might find this surprising, but the Latin populace has very similar attitudes to the white, non-Hispanic populace. Their youths are just as thuggish as any, but teenage brats don't seem to vary much across cultural or ethnic lines. The only group that consistently shows greater opposition to gay marriage is the black populace. American Latinos may be mostly blue collar, but they are still very successful due to their preservation of the nuclear family. Their ability to fall back on cousins, uncles, and so forth has prevented them from being hit as hard by poverty and economic problems. Homophobia is usually correlated with economic hardship. Well, the numbers say that the Latinos are poor, but their culture makes them rich in a way that we have all but forgotten. I honestly don't think that true homophobia ever really took root in the Latin population. Just typical teenage thuggishness, which is a universal. Otherwise, I think that our immigrants should be more recognized for their resilience and their integrity.

Besides, they're going to constitute the majority of the American voting population within a few more years. That'll make me a double-minority. Kissing up starting now would be wise. Consider yourself warned.



Uhmm, this is something I am going to verily disagree on. Homosexuality is not something that the Hispanics as a whole embrace.


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