Zeitgeist

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I feel very strongly about Zeitgeist too. I've showed it to everyone I know... in fact I keep it on my USB drive and copy it to peoples computers when I'm at their house.

Sure... I could claim to know more than the film maker... and pick holes in what's being said... but it's a pretty big claim for anyone to say that they do.

It's often questions and not answers that collect the accolades... and Zeitgeist is just that... questioning... and we need people questioning this kind of stuff.

Life could no doubt be more harmonious and easier if the current systems of government, banking, and religion were seen for what they are: Outmoded, out-dated, and irrelevant.

Technology is our divinity.

We have the technology and resources to provide the best food, transport, housing and medical treatment for everyone on the planet. Yet we don't because of the financial treadmill that governments and citizens are forced to run on.

Decisions on how to run the planet are technical decisions that need to be made by scientists... not financial decisions made by the elite. This is our downfall... as described in Zeitgeist Addendum.

Last edited by wrongplanetmember on 30 Nov 2008, 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

From what I saw I was never really impressed. What they do say that makes sense, they seem to be bending it around to rather leftist aims. Its sad really.

Not that the questions don't need to be asked, just that I really don't think one should look at this as anything more than it is.

You're sh*****g me right? It is almost completely, if not entirely, assumptions based off fabricated evidence. f**k, if I got a penny for every time they outright lied to the viewer I'd be a millionaire.

I have watched it and recently saw the Addendum.

Section 1:
Attempting to imply that Jesus is a fictional fusions of existing mythologies. This has been well debunked many times over, Google it. Did all the magical miraculous stuff happen? I know how powerful a force an organization can be in imposing 'The Truth (TM)' from personal experience. The Church has had more then opportunity and motive to plant information favorable to its view in the historical records we have access to. But the evidence that Jesus really did live and teach is quite well established.

Section 2:
Something is very, very, very fishy about what the government says happened on 9/11/2001. DUH! DUH! DUH!

If you want to watch something MUCH more well done on the subject download "The Power of Nightmares" from YouTube or BT.


Section 3 & Addendum:
A Fiat currency and fractional banking system creates Wage and Debt Slaves. Is this the insidious plan of the Dark Cabal That Controls Everything? I tend to think its an emergent combination of personal greed on the part of the clue-full and willful ignorance on the part of the clue-less. The rest of us are just cough in between.

If you want to REALLY know what is wrong with the economy read Peak Everything and The Long Emergency. You'll wish it really was the Illuminati and Reptilians.


Addendum Conclusion:
"Space The Final Frontier . . ." Well who wouldn't want to live in a Roddenbarrean fantasy world where money and worry are obsolete? The Venus Project is sure idealistic, I am really not sure how realistic. At least I don't see it as something realistic in the context of a purely secular philosophy. On the other hand if humanity 'grows up' and gets over the Ego and can Wake Up to the oneness of all life, self and God then the rest would just fall into proper place almost on its own.

One thing I am interested in is the claim about the MIT study indicating the potential recoverable energy in geothermal is far greater then the current energy use of civilization. I have been searching but have not found the information they are supposed to be referring to.

haha "I'm still an anarchist punk rocker conspiracy theorist! " give me a break your a little kid who knows nothing of being a Punk,
nobody under 40 knows what it is, go listen to your Pink Cds and STFU !

Just a quick public service announcement for all you Zeitgeist fans: The Kroger brand of heavy duty tinfoil is 50% off this weekend at QFC and King Soopers stores, and I hear from a cousin of a friend's sister's boyfriend that unverifiable Youtube videos prove that it blocks 88% more government mind control rays than the next leading brand when fashioned into a hat. Better jump on that quick, before the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds corner the aluminum market and replace it with Chinese pot metal that contains lead, arsenic and fluoride...

protest_the_hero: I don't know why these guys are being like this... you're allowed to believe whatever you want. Maybe they are part of the Rockafella clan

hey zeitgeist people, can you guys give more info on jacque fresco? i mean since the venus project factors heavily into the new edit...i'd figure you guys might know of his credentials and past experience. wiki offers nothing other than to say that he has no degrees or credentials. found a promotional video that includes a clip of him being interviewed by larry king in (what appears to be) the 70's so i assume he has SOMETHING to his name, right? maybe?


well that's why i'm asking. i'm curious just what he did to make his money before he started selling everyone on the future back in the 70s.

That's quite true the problem is getting to it. There are few places on earth where the magma is close enough to be useful but still stable (it won't turn into a volcano or suffer frequent earthquakes) and the fact that the act of tapping that power creates a kind of reverse volcano... an outcropping of solid rock in the magma that eventually reduces power production to zero and requires additional drilling to fix until it happens again.

OFT, and also pretty damn funny.



Also, doen't water need to be nearby, I think for the Turbines.

No need to write my own post when Skafather already said everything that needed said.

Oh, and Dox47: You are my hero.

The Venus Project's official website should tell you all you need to know. Besides, it's not his credentials we shoulde criticising, it's the ideas he has and his toughts for the future of an emergent (not utopic) resource based (not communist) economy.

Um, where? Last I heard was that historians still have not found credible primary sources that establish and verfy the existence of Jesus as mentioned in the Bible. The only reference I am aware of is from Josephus (who was historian in the area at the time of jesus), however it is well regarded that the reference to Jesus in his works was an addition duing translation by the Church, the reference was not found in the original writings.

Zeitgeist? Yeah, it's a good album. "The Fear" is just plain mental.

Zeitgeist the film, not the album.

There are two passages from Josephus: -
"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men who received the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemend him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and then thousands other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct to this day." - Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 18.3.3. This passage is referred to as the Testimonium Flavium.

"But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of Sadducees, who are sever in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity,as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges and bought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned." - Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 20.9.1.

Regarding the Testimonium Flavium, the consensus amongst the scholarly community is that, whilst some parts of this passage are obvious interpolations, other parts are distinctly authentic, which include the reference to Jesus. From 1937 to 1980, out of 52 scholars reviewing the subject, 39 found portions of this passage to be authentic. Since 1980, 10 out of 13 books on the subject argue that this passage is partially authentic whilst the other three argue it is a complete forgery. Coincidentally, these three books all argue that Jesus never existed. Notable scholars that accept partial authenticity of the Testimonium Flavium include: - John P. Meier, Steve Mason, Paula Fredrikson, E.P. Sanders, Geza Vermes, John D. Crossan, Louis H. Feldman, Paul Winter, S.G.F. Brandon, Morton Smith, James H. Charlesworth, Carlo M. Martini, Wolfgang Trilling, A.M. Dubarle, Robert Van Voorst, R.T. France, F.F. Bruce, Craig L. Blomberg, Ben Witherington III, James D.G. Dunn, Darrell L. Bock, Alice Whealey, Luke T. Johnson, J. Carleton Paget and Graham Stanton. (These scholars represent a wide swath of academia, not just some narrow subset of conservative believers).

"We can be confident that there was a minimal reference to Jesus... because once the clearly Christian section are removed, the rest makes good grammatical and historical sense. The peculiarly Christian words are parenthetically connected to the narrative; hence they are gramatically free and could have easily been inserted by a Christian. These sections are also disruptive, and when they are removed the flow of thought is improved and smoother." - James H. Charlesworth, Jesus Within Judaism, Doubleday, 1988, p93-94.

"...[m]any key words and phrases in the Testimonium are either absent from the NT or are used in an entirely different sense; in contrast, almost every word in the core of the Testimonium is found elsewhere in Josephus - in fact, most of the vocabulary turns out to be characteristic of Josephus." - John P. Meier, A Marginal Jew Vol. I, Anchor Bible, 2001, p63.

There are then more references to Jesus: -
"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the pricne could bestwo, nor all the atonements which could be presented tp the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed tp have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumour, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judaea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judaea, where the mischief originated, but through thr city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accorsingly, an arrest was made of all who pleaded guilty; that, upon their information, an immense multitude was convincted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against humanity." - Cornelius Tacitus, Annals, 15.44.

"They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was, that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternating verse a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to do any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, nor to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up." - Pliny the Younger, Epistulae, X,96.

"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day- the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account... It was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers from the moment they are converted and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws..." - Lucian of Samosata, The Death of Peregrinus, 11-13.

"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: The Athenians died of hunger. The Samians were overwhelmed by the sea. The Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good. He lived on in the teachings of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good. He lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good. He lived on in the teaching which He had given." - Mara bar Serapion

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu (Jesus) [Some texts: Yeshu/Jesus the Nazarene] was hanged [crucified]. Forty days before the execution, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover." - Babylonian Talmud.

Then there is a bunch from Celsus: -
"Jesus, on account of his poverty, was hired out to go to Egypt. While there he acquired certain [magical] powers... He returned home highly elated at possessing these powers, and on the strength of them gave himself out to be a god... It was by means of sorcery that He was able to accomplish the wonders which He performed... Let us believe that these cures, or the resurrection, or the feeding of a multitude with a few loaves... These are nothing more than the tricks of jugglers... It is by the names of certain demons, and by the use of incantations, that the Christians appear to be possessed of [miraculous] power..."

"Jesus had come from a village in Judea, and was the son of a poor Jewess who gained her living by the work of her hands. His mother had been turned out by her husband, who was a carpenter by trade, on being convicted of adultery [with a Roman soldier named Panthera]. Being thus driven away by her husband, and wandering about in disgrace, she gave birth to Jesus, a bastard."

"Jesus gathered around him ten or eleven persons of notorious character... tax-collectors, sailors, and fishermen... [He was] deserted and delivered up by those who had been his associates, who had him for their teacher, and who believed he was the savior and son of the greatest God... Those who were his associates while alive, who listened to his voice, and enjoyed his instructions as their teacher, on seeing him subjected to punishment and death, neither died with nor for him... but denied that they were even his disciples, lest they die along with Him."

"One who was a God could neither flee nor be led away a prisoner... What great deeds did Jesus perform as God? Did he put his enemies to shame or bring to an end what was designed against him? No calamity happened even to him who condemned him... Why does he not give some manifestation of his divinity, and free himself from this reproach, and take vengeance upon those who insult both him and his Father?"

"If any one predicted to us that the Son of God was to visit mankind, he was one of our prophets, and the prophet of our God? John, who baptized Jesus, was a Jew."

"Jesus accordingly exhibited after His death only the appearance of wounds received on the cross, and was not in reality so wounded as He is described to have been."