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jc6chan
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30 May 2011, 11:50 am

OJani wrote:
People sloping about here with laptops tend to have much better social skills than me, talk with people in person or on phone much more, understand socializing way better, use facebook still with ease compared to me, hang out with each other a lot more than I do, speak about topics that are not my interests. Not to mention sensory issues.

I wouldn't say they are autistic.


I think this shows that autism is not "caused by the environment". Even when direct face-to-face communication has now been limited (relative to 100 years ago), people still have social skills. You don't "get autism" from high-tech, remote communication.



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30 May 2011, 11:58 am

One very important point: video gaming is not a solitary pursuit.

The article is BS, and america is always an unusual one in these things, using american statistics to judge western society is using the war mongering hole of the west to judge the better parts.


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TTRSage
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30 May 2011, 12:40 pm

aspardon wrote:
I mastruabte like 3-5 hours per day lol

does this mean I am autistic?


I wish I still could... it would help pass the time and loneliness... just wait until you get older.



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30 May 2011, 1:02 pm

Regardless of the referenced article, this is something that I believe strongly and it is an impression that has continually been hitting me squarely in the face again and again lately. I posted similar thoughts (and words) in another thread here (link below) but will repeat them here because it is such an applicable thought. When I grew up, people would actually talk to and interact with their neighbors who were treated as welcomed friends. These days people are increasingly living in an isolated world, shunning their neighbors who are treated as adversaries and treating them in this manner rather than reaching out to them as I still try to do, even though I am an Aspie. At least I try to reach out to people up to the point where they have hurt me too badly by their rejection and avoidance of me in favor of their own narrow range of interests. Does this sound familiar? It should because it is part of the DSM definition of autism.

I find that so many people these days are so cold, heartless, judgmental and selfish. It seems to be a downwardly spiraling progression of the 1980s generation that someone once coined as "The Me Generation". Perhaps the present generation should be designated as "The Autistic Generation". During my college days in 1968, there was an altruistic student movement going on for the betterment of mankind, which had as its motto the words "Give a Damn" (I think it was local to my own college, but this was typical of the times). Of course that was the 1960s when people truly did give a damn about others (Republicans, rednecks and klan excluded). These days it really does seem that nobody gives a damn about anything except themselves. When you stop to think that the semantics of the word autism carries the original meaning "of or pertaining to the self" (regardless of the narrower DSM definition), you begin to see that this increasingly isolated world really is the underlying essence of autism. Thus the world itself is becoming increasingly autistic while we as Aspies are trying increasingly to reach out to a world that no longer cares about anything but itself. Ask yourself how many times you see people outdoors these days doing anything except talking on a cellphone for better reception and thus insulating themselves from the larger population as a whole. Some might blame technology, but I think it is people's attitudes that are changing. They are becoming more autistic themselves and simply do not give a damn about others.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3690615.html#3690615



Aldran
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30 May 2011, 1:49 pm

An interesting idea this......

That said I think this is far more complicated then either the blogger or most of us could grasp, but thats a risk one takes when trying to define millions or billions of people under one or two labels.....

I disagree with the blogger (Who contradicts himself as often as not, and sounds more like an older conservative lamenting the death of Main St. America in my mind, I can give quoted examples from what he wrote if anyone but asks as to what lead me to this belief), and the thought that Western Society is becoming "Autistic". My reasons for my disagreement are varied, but to start: Though people are giving up face to face interaction, the amount of online/virtual/verbal communication via computers and personal devices equates to more time being social with far more people then face to face time in small groups in parks ever could. I will agree its less in quality, but trying to describe society as being autistic simply because of that is like saying penguins are developing a disorder because they're spending more time in the water (When whats really going on is their Ice Bound home is melting...).

Further, just becuase people are spending more time on their computers doesn't mean that "they're focusing on their computers"..... Computers are in my mind a different breed of technology then pretty much anything that came before them, if only because, in the space of a single Monitor the amount of varied information possible to view is for the first time as encompassing as everyone in the world wants to make it, the speed at which its viewable is essentially instantaneous, and most importantly changes at as little as a button press...... Whats more important to note about computer use isn't the fact that people are on computers, but rather what they're DOING on their computers.... Not everyone blogs, not everyone uses at as a daily planner, not every one plays games, not everyone masturbates..... And assuming that everyone that uses a computer uses the computer in the same manner and as such share an addiction to said "computer" with all other computer users is delusional and down right ignorant.....

I agree that people are more distant in personal atmospheres then they used to be. But think about it this way (And Ill use an analogy thats already been presented here to boot): 50 Years ago, you spent alot of time at one bowling alley..... You had friends there, shared experiences, wins, losses, to the point where you invited these people into your home and life and shared with them..... Sometimes youd meet people from another bowling alley from accross town, and they were the enemy because they were trying to beat your team, but afterwards at the least you all shared a sport. Finally tack in the non-bowlers, all those smarmy park goers and tree huggers and DYI people that have never set foot in a bowling alley and don't understand what it was like to beat the towns other bowling team that night 2 years ago or the party you had afterwards. You accept them as people, but know they'll never share that part of your life and there for don't really make a point of inviting them to understand that part unless they ask out of fear that they might not want to understand and there by invalidate some part of your experience....... NOW, if we can understand all of this in our analogy..... Replace the word "Bowling Alley" with "Game".... or "Blog"...... or Any modern virtual Gathering place...... And think about the ramifications to the analogy as a result..... People like the people they've chosen to be with best. So if they spend more time with people online, chances are they're going to be more friendly with those people then people in the real world...... The point Im making is that, Humans IMHO really haven't changed that much, we've just moved from a Real Life meeting place with Local Friends and Entertainment, to a Virtual Meeting place with Global friends and entertainment...... Main Street America is dying and almost dead (Though not really, because like all past trends with say ~150 years of present date there will be people that remember it and seek to recreate it), but Mainstreet.com is flourishing...... And yes, a side result seems to be chosen ignorance and lack of care for real people in close proximity vs those they know and keep up with online.......

Finally. I agree with whats been said that society is evolving (As evidenced in the above Paragraph). It always has been and always will.... Life evolves and adapts (Even if this isn't always a purely biological practice) and humans are no exception..... New things are on the scene that are causing this, and old things are appearing less, but that doesn't mean its neccissarily bad. If you think about all the possible reasons we could be evolving (Natural disasters on global scale for instance), choosing to embrace something like this is far far preferable IMHO then being forced into it by some force of nature or politics...... There are problems, but people will overcome the ones that really stand in the way of what they want to do. Probably the thing I would suggest to people that are unhappy with the way things are? Be the change you wish to see in the world......

Thanks for reading if you did.



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30 May 2011, 1:59 pm

TTRSage wrote:
Regardless of the referenced article, this is something that I believe strongly and it is an impression that has continually been hitting me squarely in the face again and again lately. I posted similar thoughts (and words) in another thread here (link below) but will repeat them here because it is such an applicable thought. When I grew up, people would actually talk to and interact with their neighbors who were treated as welcomed friends. These days people are increasingly living in an isolated world, shunning their neighbors who are treated as adversaries and treating them in this manner rather than reaching out to them as I still try to do, even though I am an Aspie. At least I try to reach out to people up to the point where they have hurt me too badly by their rejection and avoidance of me in favor of their own narrow range of interests. Does this sound familiar? It should because it is part of the DSM definition of autism.

I find that so many people these days are so cold, heartless, judgmental and selfish. It seems to be a downwardly spiraling progression of the 1980s generation that someone once coined as "The Me Generation". During my college days in 1968, there was a student movement going on for the betterment of mankind, which had as its motto the words "Give a Damn". These days it really does seem that nobody gives a damn about anything except themselves. When you stop to think that the semantics of the word autism carries the original meaning "of or pertaining to the self" (regardless of the narrower DSM definition), you begin to see that this increasingly isolated world really is the underlying essence of autism. Thus the world itself is becoming increasingly autistic while we as Aspies are trying increasingly to reach out to a world that no longer cares about anything but itself. Ask yourself how many times you see people outdoors these days doing anything except talking on a cellphone for better reception and thus insulating themselves from the larger population as a whole. Some might blame technology, but I think it is people's attitudes that are changing. They are becoming more autistic themselves and simply do not give a damn about others.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3690615.html#3690615


I didn't know any of my neighbors on a personal basis, everyone went on with busy lives without much awareness of those that live around them. Technology insulates us from others, airconditioning was probably the largest culprit that started the change. Go into a neighborhood today with poor conditions and no airconditioning and one often sees groups of people passing the time with each other.

I think humans in general are the same social animals they have always been, but the need for face to face connection, has been replaced by other activities, that are seen as valued ones by the culture.

A Hurricane came through my area and we went without electricity for about 8 days. It only took hours before people were outside talking to each other in my neighborhood, sharing food and time with each other. I too lived a busy life, and instead of working in a Bowling Center full of happy people, I now worked behind a computer in a small office with a handful of other administrators.

I came to the realization that those poor people laughing and talking to other people on their porches in less advantaged neighborhoods weren't necessarily the unlucky ones. The week without electricity and connection with neighbors ended quickly when the power came back on. When the electricity went off I dreaded what was to come, but instead realized what was missing in life, that a value cannot be placed on. I also realized how stressed I was interacting with machines rather than people.

Connecting with people on machines is certainly better than no connection at all, but connecting to different people everyday, now seems like a distant dream in another life.

I lived in a small town where everyone knew everyone. Now it is a city full of strangers. I don't see how anyone can understand the difference, unless they have lived both types of life.

Interesting your comment on "give a damn" in '68. I remember in the early eighties when the computer science rooms were in their infancy at college. There was a sign on the wall with the computers that said "Don't Forget About People You are Human!". Those signs have long been torn down and long forgotten.



jc6chan
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30 May 2011, 2:41 pm

Phonic wrote:
The article is BS, and america is always an unusual one in these things, using american statistics to judge western society is using the war mongering hole of the west to judge the better parts.

I agree that America does not represent Western Society but many articles we read were probably researched in America so people have easy access to American data. And they probably think that since America is the most populous Western country, they are like "oh well, lets claim its WESTERN society."

I would think that its not just Western society that is like this. Any country that has high-tech urban development is similar.



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30 May 2011, 3:55 pm

aghogday wrote:
I didn't know any of my neighbors on a personal basis, everyone went on with busy lives without much awareness of those that live around them. Technology insulates us from others, airconditioning was probably the largest culprit that started the change. Go into a neighborhood today with poor conditions and no airconditioning and one often sees groups of people passing the time with each other.


This is an excellent point. I grew up in Tampa in the 1950s in which we only had air conditioniing in one small room of the house and consequently spent a lot of time outdoors or on an open screen porch even though I craved to be indoors away from it all. My dad came from a tiny rural SE Georgia town and when we visited my grandmother there she only had A/C in the living room and only ran it on rare occasions at which times we isolated ourselves from those outdoors. However that house had a large old fashioned front porch with two person swing and a large screen porch on the side. I loved sitting on the screen porch during rainstorms just watching the show and we also spent a lot of time on that front porch. People would come walking by on the road in front of the house and my grandmother would start up a conversation at a distance then invite them to "come sit a spell and talk". My sister and I spent a lot of time on that porch blowing bubbles with bottles of bubble mix. Those were the days.

aghogday wrote:
There was a sign on the wall with the computers that said "Don't Forget About People You are Human!". Those signs have long been torn down and long forgotten.


There was a song from the 1985 time period that this brings to mind. I don;t remember the band but it contained the words, "Don't you... forget about me". That always made an impression on me because so many people always DID forget about me entirely, leaving me standing there in loneliness while talking all about how lonely I was. They still do so today.



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30 May 2011, 4:28 pm

TTRSage wrote:
aghogday wrote:
I didn't know any of my neighbors on a personal basis, everyone went on with busy lives without much awareness of those that live around them. Technology insulates us from others, airconditioning was probably the largest culprit that started the change. Go into a neighborhood today with poor conditions and no airconditioning and one often sees groups of people passing the time with each other.


This is an excellent point. I grew up in Tampa in the 1950s in which we only had air conditioniing in one small room of the house and consequently spent a lot of time outdoors or on an open screen porch even though I craved to be indoors away from it all. My dad came from a tiny rural SE Georgia town and when we visited my grandmother there she only had A/C in the living room and only ran it on rare occasions at which times we isolated ourselves from those outdoors. However that house had a large old fashioned front porch with two person swing and a large screen porch on the side. I loved sitting on the screen porch during rainstorms just watching the show and we also spent a lot of time on that front porch. People would come walking by on the road in front of the house and my grandmother would start up a conversation at a distance then invite them to "come sit a spell and talk". My sister and I spent a lot of time on that porch blowing bubbles with bottles of bubble mix. Those were the days.

aghogday wrote:
There was a sign on the wall with the computers that said "Don't Forget About People You are Human!". Those signs have long been torn down and long forgotten.


There was a song from the 1985 time period that this brings to mind. I don;t remember the band but it contained the words, "Don't you... forget about me". That always made an impression on me because so many people always DID forget about me entirely, leaving me standing there in loneliness while talking all about how lonely I was. They still do so today.


School and Work kept me connected; although I was married, I wondered why I didn't have the close friends that some did. Seemed like everyone at work smoked except for me, and I always thought, that must be why they bond closer that I do with them, because they smoke together. I never realized how truly disconnected I was, until my health failed, and I had to quit working.

I grew up in my grandmothers house, and my idea of old age and retirement was based on the life she lived. The older people in town went to each others homes and played cards, and visited each other often. Most of my family remained in the same area, so there were many connections there. Somehow I thought my older life would turn out that way too, but my generation didn't have kids, never kept touch, and went their separate ways.



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30 May 2011, 4:29 pm

TTRSage wrote:
There was a song from the 1985 time period that this brings to mind. I don;t remember the band but it contained the words, "Don't you... forget about me". That always made an impression on me because so many people always DID forget about me entirely, leaving me standing there in loneliness while talking all about how lonely I was. They still do so today.


Simple Minds, Don't You (Forget About Me)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7xXgIgV6DA[/youtube]