Teacher called my daughter lazy

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Mummy of Peanut, I wanted to come on to offer my support. I think you are doing the right thing. Your DD sounds exactly like mine and while we tried mainstream school up until last year (3rd grade in the US), things had actually begun to fall apart for our girl in second grade. We had a good teacher, but frankly the transitions (even at 8, the students were required to change classrooms and desks frequently) made it too difficult to allow for our daughter to succeed. She demonstrated amazing knowledge at home and with homework (often completing the week's homework in 40 minutes, just to get it over with), but many of her teachers were either confused or unimpressed with her knowledge at school.

We began homeschooling this September, for 4th grade, after a disastrous second semester last year. We followed the public school protocol and had her move to a different school, which allowed for more one on one guidance. Unlike our "home"/neighborhood school, this classroom was one I was not allowed to volunteer in, since the teachers had to be qualified for special education. While my DD was "hanging on" in her neighborhood school, she fell apart at this one -- her classroom had some students with behavior issues; the one other girl in her classroom kept "bothering" her (standing very close to her, touching her when she clearly didn't like it); and worse, because her academic performance was on par or better than her mainstream classmates (but she was in a special education classroom), the teachers didn't know what to do with her and gave her below-level worksheets to do all day!

So we can speak as parents who went through the system the "right" way, not all schools are able to accommodate our children's needs. While I have the utmost respect for our school system here and those professionals who tried to help our daughter, it just was not the best placement for her to succeed and learn.

I also think I can speak a little to your parents' hesitancy about your homeschool idea. My parents are first generation immigrants from China. In their culture (and perhaps, growing up in their day and age), school life was about assimilation. One must do the "norm" because not doing so means either failure or standing out, but not in a good way. My parents were very skeptical of my taking on teaching my daughter and when I got down to the real reasons this is what I found (may not be true for your situation but maybe can offer some insight):

1. "Our granddaughter is not 'normal'."
There is so much emphasis on traditional learning and not enough information in alternatives. My parents felt that by not attending a traditional brick and mortar school, my daughter was different or abnormal. This is despite the fact that my parents adore my daughter and recognize that she is bright. They thought she was the same at school as she was at home with us, and I had to tell them it was absolutely the opposite; that, in fact, our daughter was "not normal" in school - having a teacher monitor her every moment? Having meltdowns during lunch because it was too noisy or feeling rushed to go from class to class? She stood out like a sore thumb!

2. "You (meaning me, the parent) can't possibly teach her all she needs to know."
Interestingly, my college degree is in sciences and art (architectural history), which are two of my DD's favorite subjects. I worked in biotech prior to being a SAHM. The curriculum we use is generated for us, but I can enrich my daughter's learning experience with my college textbooks, the internet, and museum visits. I can teach her all she knows - and then some! For many of us parents who take on the home-schooling role, teaching is just an extension of the career or education we had. I had to convince my parents that they didn't "throw away" their education on me - I worked for many years prior to having children and now I get to use that education to be her teacher. And there are many good homeschool curriculums out there on the internet to help support you teaching.

3. "It will be too stressful."
While it's true that there is more hands-on work involved in being a parent teacher, the minimal stress and work does not compare to the amount of anxiety we had when we had our daughter in a traditional classroom. Our daughter arrived home from school either in a foul mood (due to keeping herself together all day) or crying her last two months of school. I feel terrible now for what we must have put her through - particularly since now she is so happy with home *and* school. We had afterschool meetings, IEP meetings, behavior and placement meetings - all time that could be better spent actually teaching and learning. Any nervous energy I have now can be directly channeled into planning and teaching. We take frequent breaks and can complete a day's curriculum in about 3 hours.

4. "How will your daughter make friends? She will be a social pariah."
So not true! There are programs for children who homeschool in many areas. And nothing is preventing you from enrolling your child in afterschool programs and activities. In fact, she may be even more energized to participate, since all her energy isn't going into being "perfect" for teachers and classmates. We saw a change in our DD within the first month - she was socializing more and drawing real pleasure being in the company of others. When my parents noticed this change, the concerns dissipated.

5. "'Homeschooling' sounds like 'not schooling'. How will schoolwork get done?"
I chalk this up to my parents not staying in touch with current education developments. Very good studies have been done citing environment playing a huge factor in the affect of children and their ability to learn. Having my daughter learn in a traditional classroom was akin to throwing her in a mosh pit in a rock concert and having her produce a term paper. It was inconceivable that she would be able to succeed with that format. Yes, "home" school is not real life, but we can ease her into the "real life" experience once she feels comfortable and on her terms. And, at least the curriculum we work with, has very stringent standards for testing and learning - with actually more tests happening in our virtual school than our DD ever had in her traditional neighborhood school!

Ultimately, you are the best judge about what your daughter needs. I know having your parents' support is important (I'm a second-generation Chinese-American and parental approval is a very important to me), but your child's needs come first, as you probably know. I really fought my parents on this one and I'm glad I did - for everyone's sake! Good luck to you and best of luck your peanut

Thanks Kailuamom and audball, that was very helpful.

Kailuamom, thanks for that link, it will come in very handy, I'm sure.

Audball, you sound exactly like a future me. I even have a science degree, like you, and, although I'm not qualified in art, I'm an amateur artist. I take my daughter to everything that's advertised that I think she might like, especially if it's free. We're forever going to museums, the theatre, science and cultural festivals, so she has been exposed to a lot of things that most kids never get a chance to experience. I'm not an annoying, pushy mum at all, I just love to see my daughter smiling and she really enjoys learning. We're going to make a bird feeder on Saturday, at a local museum - educational, yet loads of fun.

momsparky: Thank you so much for the kind words. I browse this forum often and have found so much good information from participants. Just trying to help where I can!

Mummy_of_Peanut, just being involved with your child means that she is at such a huge advantage..you know her best! I think our kids are just transported to a different place when they are happy and engaged in what's going on around them...museums, art exhibits, science shows - these are where our kids blossom...not in the classrooms! I re-read your concerns about your parents and the "school will win if you pull your child out" tagline is potentially a grandparent's way of not truly telling you why they are concerned. Have an honest talk about why they are worried about homeschooling your daughter and go over it with them point by point. My parents were extremely naive about what homeschooling meant. They have seen the changes and have done a complete turn-around!

The one who wins when your child is happy and learning is you - and your child

Hi Mummy of Peanut

Im a terrible luker on these forums and have rarely ever posted as Im not really where my son fits into the spectrum (if at all) yet. But I have been reading this thread with alot of interest. I live in Scotland also and really feel your pain with the school system here.

My son is nearly 4 and at present still in nursery but has had a really bad start there, he is currently under a speech therapist, who like me believes he has auditory issues. I think he might be on the high end of the spectrum but with mostly auditory issues. To be honest he is just a bit differant to his peers but not glaringly so

But he has already been labelled by his teachers at nursery as "difficult", "stubborn", "overly strong willed" (is that even possible) etc etc.

He will have a long time yet at nursery and already I am seriously considering home schooling and looking into it. Would be very interested to find out how you find it goes here in Scotland.

All the best

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful and supportive. I've not been on here for a few days as my computer power supply gave up. I'm using the wii to type this so please allow for any weird typos.

This is just a little update on our situaton. We met with the head on Monday. The meeting was pleasant enough, but I don't think we said half of what we intended to. I felt a bit better afterwards, nonetheless.

But, the very next day, my daughter came home and told us that she had been accused of trying to strangle someone and was sent to the wall as a punishment. She says she never even touched the girl in question. She's sure she saw 3 girls making a sort of 'pact', then one of them told one of the ladies my daughter had strangled one of the others. There were no other witnesses. In the cloakroom, my daughter asked the 'strangled' girl why she had done that and she apologised, said she would never do anything like that again, yet continued to lie in class. My daughter is convinced that the 3rd girl is the instigator and the other 2 are frightened of her, although they think she's their friend. She conveniently kept out of the whole affair. My daughter was really upset about it. She's very gentle and non violent and the whole thing is completely ridiculous.

I decided to write a letter to the teacher, explaining her version of the event. We never get a chance to speak to the teachers before the bell goes and I was going on a training course, in the school, that day, and wouldn't get a chance to speak to them later. As I was waiting at reception, to be collected for the course, the depute head invited me into her room, holding the letter. She more or less rubbished what I had said, even though I've personally witnessed several incidents involving the 'bully'. By the end of it, I was in tears and she was her usual patronising self. She said she would speak with my daughter again and call me later that day. That was Wednesday, this is Friday pm and I'm still waiting, just as I'm still waiting for her to set an update meeting.

With regard to the wider issues, my husband made some enquiries and was advised to contact psychological services. An ed psych called me today and we have an appointment to meet with her and the class teacher in 2 weeks. However, both my hubby and I are shocked that the psych team were only informed about our daughter last week (and that was just a mention of an anonymous P2 girl), when she was identified as needing to be assessed well over a year ago. The ed psych sounds lovely. I explained my relationship (or lack of) with the school and she said we'll get lots of things ironed out at the meeting.

So, I'm back to being a bit more hopeful. If the depute head retires (she definitely appears to be close to that age, if not past it) and my daughter moves into P3 with a much better teacher (unfortunately that's months away), we'll all be much more content.

Ugh, Mummy I'm so sorry. We were dealing with a similar situation a year ago. I can't recommend enough bringing an advocate with you to help you keep the meetings on track; it's an impossible expectation that you will be clear-minded and unemotional in a situation like that.

The point I would make to the teacher and principal: if this incident happened, why was it missed by the supervisors? If no adult saw it, why was the version told by the other kids taken to be the whole truth? This is a serious accusation: what evidence do they have to support it, other than a story told by some children?

Again, I cannot recommend enough bringing an advocate; ask wherever you are getting services if they offer that kind of support, call your local Autism society and ask for help. In my unfortunate experience, showing the school that you know your child's rights and have backup is an effective way to get them to take you seriously.

Hug your poor peanut for me.

Mummy_of_Peanut, I am sorry to hear about what you have been dealing with. I agree with momsparky; if there is any way you can have an advocate come with you during these meetings, it would be most helpful. Meetings such as the one you had can be very intimidating and often times the school representatives sense this and just want to hurry the meeting along. In the US, IEP meetings can be requested at any time, so it behooves all those involved to settle issues efficiently but effectively.

I would even go so far as to draft what you want to say and go ahead and read it to those school team members. At the very least, if you have issues typed point by point, you can end your meeting with, "These are *all* the issues I wanted to touch upon; we have only covered a few. I would like to know how to address the remaining issues. I will expect a follow up on (name a specific date)." I always think of the "S.M.A.R.T." acronym. Keeping your requests Smart, Measurable, Attainable, Realistic, and Timely.

This type of bullying is horrible . Children can be so cruel. I hope your Peanut feels somewhat vindicated that she got a "confession" from one of the girls. The other girls should be questioned about the incident separately; the deputy head should not be questioning your daughter again! The most important thing is that your DD has your support, without question. As a once-bullied child, I will tell you that a parent's support goes a long way in being able to navigate through school.

Would it be possible to contact the parents of the bully? I don't know if you could phone or email them, but just letting them know that their child is involved in this type of behavior may be eye-opening to them. It doesn't have to be confrontational (unless this has escalated since you have written about it); maybe you could keep it very generalized and say, "It appears that there is a lot of drama involving our daughters at school. I would like things to be smoothed over, wouldn't you? What are your suggestions for helping this along?" Maybe putting the bully's parents in a corner will instigate a discussion in *their* household.

I'm happy to hear that the ed psych is getting involved. However, I am concerned that the environment is one where your daughter may already be pegged as an "instigator". The best advocates for your daughter need to be those people who are closest to her during the school day; unfortunately, the psych ed may not be. Do you feel you are supported by the teacher and the deputy head? Do you feel that they are truly willing to help your DD? "Months away" can be an eternity for children who are bullied routinely. It would be great if your DD knew there were safeguards in place to ensure that she was not going to run into these issues again....

I should add - I know you were discussing homeschool; I don't know if that is a viable option for you - but if the school chooses to see your daughter in a certain light (as "instigator" as audball put it,) something needs to change.

However, if it were me - I wouldn't let it go, even if I pulled my daughter out of the school, ESPECIALLY if you paid tuition. If this is happening to your daughter, it's happening to other kids too, kids whose parents may not have the understanding or resources you have. Schools should have a written-out policy for bullying, and a procedure for situations where one student accuses another (frankly, in this situation, with no evidence, I would have separated the kids without punishing them and seen to it that the groups involved were watched carefully from that point forward.)

For example, our school, noting that there was a bullying problem in our 4th grade, enrolled the entire cohort of kids in an anti-bullying curriculum - I personally don't think the curriculum was very good, but at least they assumed the problem as systemic (which it was) rather than singling out "problem" children.

Hi Everyody

I'm in a bit of a state today. As I said in a previous post, I never expected the depute head to call me back, after speaking to my daughter again. My husband called the school yesterday, as I was out, and told her that I had been expecting a call from her. She denied that she said she'd call me back. Now, I can forgive someone for forgetting, but this is a lie, as I clearly recall her saying she would. If she hadn't said it, I would have asked her to call me anyway, as the matter wasn't over, as far as I was concerned. This seems like such a trivial matter to get upset about, but everything seems to be piling up. I think my husband actually believed her at first, but I'm pretty certain he believes me now.

Anyway, she told him the ladies in the playground had seen what happened. The 'strangling' was a group hood pulling event - the 4 girls running around holding onto one another's hoods. My daughter had her own hood pulled too. Yet, I'm still bewildered as to why my daughter was singled out and sent to the wall for 'strangling' E, when she was holding T's hood and never even touched E. In fact, T was the one pulling E's hood. The depute head says kids are sent to the wall to calm down, but as far any child at that school is concerned, being sent to the wall is a punishment. Furthermore, if it was so serious (it appears they took it quite seriously due to the amount of questioning that went on afterwards), why did they wait until the hood pulling had actually ended for several minutes and an accusation was made, before any adult intervened? Why didn't they stop it, while it was happening?

Then my daughter started to talk about the adults in the playground. One of her social skills issues, which we're trying to address, involves telling adults about trivial matters. But, now it appears that if she approaches a playground supervisor, they say, 'I don't want to the hear it', before she even has a chance to speak. They might be getting fed up with her, but this is not how speak to anyone, especially a child who is there to learn. My concern about this is that how is she ever going to learn what is trivial and what isn't? Also, to be spoken to in that manner is not going to do anything for her confidence. And to just fit in nicely with the hood pulling, these are the witnesses who sent her to the wall. It seems that they don't like her.

I'm taking advice from you all.

Thank you

MummyofPeanut, your daughter sounds just perfect for homeschooling, even without the school problems, and it doesn't look like those school problems will be corrected well.

As for your father, it is quite common for relatives to give you grief when you leave the main stream, then sing your praises once they see your child excel in homeschooling. I would avoid discussion of homeschooling as much as possible and let him see the positive difference in your daughter.

Surround yourself with supportive people. Write out your goals, and your beliefs about school. Keep this to remind yourself and stay focused. Never express doubts to unsupportive people. Your daughter's life is too important to be held back by your father.

I also want to mention that homeschooling is a very fulfilling lifestyle for the parent/teacher. Your involvment changes from negative (fighting the school) to positive and learning much yourself along the way.

I don't know if you are concerned with "socialization." People assume homeschoolers have problems with this but all evidence proves that homeschoolers relate to others much better than schooled children. Colleges often seek homeschoolers for their love of learning and mature attitudes. I hope this helps.

Thanks aann

You're right. All my energy is being spent on worrying. I'm mentally exhausted. It's hard to visualise myself in a role as teacher and mum, when I'm like this. If I can just see myself minus the anguish, I know it might just be possible for me to do a good job. The thing is, my husband and parents keeping saying, 'Wait and see', e.g. after the meeting with the ed psych on the 21st, after the summer holidays and she gets a new teacher, after the depute head retires and you make a fresh start with someone better. I don't have the patience for that and I like to have a clear picture of where we're heading, not that I can forecast the future. Although I'm really emotional about this whole situation, I'm also a very logical and practical person. A lot of the issues at school just don't make sense to me (they are illogical and not how things are run in the adult world either) and I feel like screaming sometimes, when I'm trying to explain my concerns (but I don't).

Another discussion with hubby beckons tonight. We made the decision to home school a couple of weeks ago, but then had meetings at school, felt better for a short time and we were hoping for things to improve drastically. But, since then, I can only say that it has gotten worse (except for the ed psych finally getting involved, but only due to my husband calling her). The more my daughter talks, the more I can see that she's in the wrong place. She's a delightful, confident little girl and the last thing I want is for the self-esteem to be knocked out of her, by a system that neither understands nor cares. Keeping her on track is going to be a challenge, but I can't see me doing a worse job than what's being done at the moment.

I thought it was understood among teachers that you don't want to have only problem children in any given group. It's best to spread the love. It's like if you fill a classroom with difficult kids and leave them there (my daughter had this experience last semester, she's also quite distractable...and wouldn't have passed science if she didn't already know enough about science). No teacher wants that class....and no kid gets anything out of it. I'm sorry you are going through this, and i have to say....it's very poor teaching.