Asperger's and Being Considered "Disabled"
You may be the most logically thinking person to walk the earth, however that does not diminish the disabilities of millions of individuals in the world diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders.
In the new DSM5 revised criteria one must be impaired and limited in everyday life functioning as a result of the impairments identified in each criteria to receive a diagnosis. One is not diagnosed if they show no signs of disability in life functioning as a result of the impairments described in the criteria.
The broader autism phenotype is suggested to extend out as far as 30% of the population; if one is not disabled by their symptoms in life functioning, that is where they fit, beyond the mandatory criteria for actual diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders.
Unfortunately the term Aspergers has become a perjorative as well in many areas of society. Using the term "NT", is tit for tat for some in describing the rest of society, that is neither normal or consistent in either neurology or behavior. The effect of the process of neuroplasticity is evidenced to create changes in neurology that vary, per every individual in the population.
You just said that everyone I've ever met could have been on the spectrum and there for my experience counts for nothing...
And, it is not possible to identify the specific changes in neurology that occur on a day to day basis per the proces of neuroplasticity, however the long term impacts of the process of neuroplasticity and the changes that occur in brain structure have been identified through MRI's.
All humans are succeptible to these neurological changes through the process of neuroplasticity depending on genetic and environmental factors. In fact, some of the measured changes in behavior associated with these changes in neurology through the process of neuroplasticity have been associated with behaviors in human beings simliar to clinical features associated with ASD's.
And please stop writing every single sentence seperatly, I can baraly make heads or tails of what you're trying to say when you chop it up.
And, autistic traits are the tip of the iceberg, introverts are actually evidenced in brain scans as having structural differences in neurology, per the pleasure centers of the brain as the relate to dopamine sensitivity. The process of neuroplasticity makes typical neurology impossible, per any human being.
I would write much longer paragraphs, however many people no longer have the patience to read more than two or three lines at a time; that is a cultural wide phenomenon, not an autistic specific one. It is also evidenced as a result of the process of neuroplasticity.
As a result of continous short bursts of information stimuli in culture, human neurology has changed through the process of neuroplasticity to adapt to this environmental change. The result is evidenced lower attention span. More than three lines at a time results in discomfort for many in the population.
And more than three, three sentence paragraphs result in discomfort for many as well. I far exceed that limit in potentially providing discomfort to others, but that is part of my behavior as one diagnosed with an ASD.
I feel free to indulge in it here on this site, but I usually can manage a three or four line limit for a paragraph.
I think you are totally right. Neurotypicals do not follow logic but rather what is socially acceptable. I could give you example after example. Take for example people that ride Harley Davidson motorcycles. A real biker does not wear a helmet. Even though there is a mountain of evidence supporting the safety of motorcycle helmets a biker will not wear a helmet because it is not socially acceptable to do so. Of course this has changed only because the law requires a biker to wear a helmet so bikers do not have a choice and now wearing a helmet is mainstream.
Sweetleaf
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You disagreed with an unquoted post from five pages ago and expected everyone to get that? Not even I am that optimistic. ^^
Being logical is nothing more than being logical, it starts and end there.
Well now you've really lost me...because from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said about aspies being more logical than neurotypicals as well as the basis of the OP.
I think we have different definitions of the word "interesting".
Not sure how that would work as I don't know there are very many different definitions of interesting, though different people certainly find different things interesting.
That was (sort of) exactly what I said, and it's mathematical proven, it's the same principal as evolution theory. AS individuals have a higher chance/risk of not indentifying with a group (this is a part of the diagnose), thus: Less prone to fall into conformity.
People go along with things they don't identify with all the time........so I feel my point still stands that having AS does not necessarily make one less likely to follow mob mentality when given the chance.
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:roll:, right I am sure this applies to every single neurotypical......people in general for some reason try to follow what is socially acceptable not just neurotypicals.
Take for example people that ride Harley Davidson motorcycles. A real biker does not wear a helmet. Even though there is a mountain of evidence supporting the safety of motorcycle helmets a biker will not wear a helmet because it is not socially acceptable to do so. Of course this has changed only because the law requires a biker to wear a helmet so bikers do not have a choice and now wearing a helmet is mainstream.
Or maybe they just don't want to....I can imagine the long hair some bikers have would be pretty uncomfortable in a helmet on a hot day so I imagine there are lots of reasons a biker might not want to wear a helmet that have nothing to do with social acceptance. I think its stupid that it's a law personally........I mean its not like not wearing one ensures you're going to die of a head injury that's only a risk if you fall or get hit and even with a helmet one could still be screwed anyways.
Maybe they should require helmets for walking across the street since people have died from getting hit by cars and the resulting head injuries.
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I would think that would be more true of maybe people with Schizoid PD, since they are more likely to lack the desire for social interaction, and from what I gather most people with AS/Autism a lot of times do want to have interaction with people but struggle with it, which might lead to rejection.
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Why would it become mainstream if most people aren't wired that way? see to me a logical idea would be to try and make society more open to different ways of brain functioning so that peoples differences can be respected instead of looked down upon. But going overboard and trying to force how our minds work on people and claiming absolute superiority seems to be a good way of throwing logic out the window.
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Because once the autistic behavior becomes mainstream it is no longer considered autistic but rather socially acceptable. At that point the autistic finds a new way to deviate from society.
For example before World War 2 belief in the possibility of space travel to the Moon was not considered to be socially acceptable. Nowadays most neurotypicals regard it as technologically feasible but not from an economic point of view.
Autistic people can be regarded as the pioneers of our society. Whenever technology is first introduced the autistic is jeered until the technology becomes socially acceptable.
One of our greatest tragedies is that neurotypical doctors refuse to prescribe i-pad communication devices for autistics who are unable to communicate. Even though there is a mountain of evidence, neurotypicals only go by what is socially acceptable.
Incorrect, the following example proves this: "I will take this lottory ticket, because my gut tells me it's a winner." A person basing decision on emotions will go for a gut feeling rather than a statistical (and there for logical) option.
People (both NT and AS) use a mix of emotion and logic to make decisions. There will be outliers such as brain injured people who have lost the ability to use emotion to help with decisions or some people with severly impaired impulse control who have lost (or never had) the ability to control emotion-based decisions. I am not including some mentally ill people who make decisions that look illogical to the majority (such as psychotic people making illusion-based decisions) because those decisions still use logic as well as emotion.
I have bought lottery tickets from time to time. I know that it is statistically unlikely I will win any drawing I enter. I also know that it is fun to indulge in the anticipation of the big drawing and I can well afford the small price of a ticket so long as I don't make a habit of it. That's an example of using a combination of logic and emotion to make a decision. To somebody who doesn't get any enjoyment from the anticipation of the drawing, it will seem illogical. But what I have actually done is make a cost-benefit analysis which factors in the cost (1$ now and then) as being worth the benefit (enjoyment of the anticipation) and cost0benefit analyses are very logical ways to make decisions.
The person who truly does no cost-benefit analysis and spends money they can't afford or acts as though the money had already been won (instead of accepting it almost certainly won't be) is not being logical. The person in your example may be doing that. But they may also just be playing making a perfectly logical decision to exchange 1$ for the light entertainment of anticipation.
I am using the term NT just for convenience. I agree with ahogday that it doesn't have any actual clinical meaning. My only point is that this perceived dichotomy between logical decision makers and emotional decision makers is just an illusion. People use both logic and emotion to make decisions and the outliers are extremely rare (more rare than autism). You use both. I use both.
Fix your quotes please, I'm not even going to begin decrypting that thing.
What was it that you weren't able to read?
All the quotes are identified with an author except for my quotes that you didn't identify with an author from the previous posts, that you responded to.
All your quotes are labeled as they were from the previous posts, and my answers to those quotes are identified labeled with my username.
You may be the most logically thinking person to walk the earth, however that does not diminish the disabilities of millions of individuals in the world diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders.
In the new DSM5 revised criteria one must be impaired and limited in everyday life functioning as a result of the impairments identified in each criteria to receive a diagnosis. One is not diagnosed if they show no signs of disability in life functioning as a result of the impairments described in the criteria.
The broader autism phenotype is suggested to extend out as far as 30% of the population; if one is not disabled by their symptoms in life functioning, that is where they fit, beyond the mandatory criteria for actual diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders.
Unfortunately the term Aspergers has become a perjorative as well in many areas of society. Using the term "NT", is tit for tat for some in describing the rest of society, that is neither normal or consistent in either neurology or behavior. The effect of the process of neuroplasticity is evidenced to create changes in neurology that vary, per every individual in the population.
You just said that everyone I've ever met could have been on the spectrum and there for my experience counts for nothing...
And, it is not possible to identify the specific changes in neurology that occur on a day to day basis per the proces of neuroplasticity, however the long term impacts of the process of neuroplasticity and the changes that occur in brain structure have been identified through MRI's.
All humans are succeptible to these neurological changes through the process of neuroplasticity depending on genetic and environmental factors. In fact, some of the measured changes in behavior associated with these changes in neurology through the process of neuroplasticity have been associated with behaviors in human beings simliar to clinical features associated with ASD's.
And please stop writing every single sentence seperatly, I can baraly make heads or tails of what you're trying to say when you chop it up.
And, autistic traits are the tip of the iceberg, introverts are actually evidenced in brain scans as having structural differences in neurology, per the pleasure centers of the brain as the relate to dopamine sensitivity. The process of neuroplasticity makes typical neurology impossible, per any human being.
I would write much longer paragraphs, however many people no longer have the patience to read more than two or three lines at a time; that is a cultural wide phenomenon, not an autistic specific one. It is also evidenced as a result of the process of neuroplasticity.
As a result of continous short bursts of information stimuli in culture, human neurology has changed through the process of neuroplasticity to adapt to this environmental change. The result is evidenced lower attention span. More than three lines at a time results in discomfort for many in the population.
And more than three, three sentence paragraphs result in discomfort for many as well. I far exceed that limit in potentially providing discomfort to others, but that is part of my behavior as one diagnosed with an ASD.
I feel free to indulge in it here on this site, but I usually can manage a three or four line limit for a paragraph.
Doctors can't prescribe what won't be paid for by insurance companies. Insurance companies will refuse to pay for as much as they can possibly get away with. Doctors run up against this problem all the time and find themselves unable to give patients the best and most cutting edge treatments and technologies because the insurance companies won't pay for it.
The good news is that several organizations have stepped up to provide non-verbal autistic people with ipads. My daughter goes to a school for autistic children and the school received many ipads for the kids to use by one of these organizations. Non-verbal kids were given ipads to keep and use at home. She is verbal and so didn't need it. I will pay for an ipad myself if she wants one (which she currently doesn't, equating its' use with school and boring math apps which she doesn't want to do at home).
The lack of ipads for all non-verbal autistic people has nothing to do with social acceptability and everything to do with cost. An ipad costs lots of money and insurance companies simply won't pay for it given that PECS boards have a negligable cost. Don't blame the doctors.
Pec boards are a joke. The pictures end up getting scattered and a single picture is not as descriptive as layers of menus can be. But neurotypical speech therapists love to invent excuses as why I-pads don't work selling parents on the idea that a ret*d autistic child simply cannot understand complex computer technology.
The speech therapists I have met or read about absolutely love the ipad apps for clients with autism. The only thing standing in their way is a lack of ipads for all.
http://www.autismpluggedin.com/2011/10/ ... ctrum.html
I have not met any speech therapists like the ones you describe. Obviously I haven't met all speech therpists, but the ones I have met seem very excited about the ipad and these apps are apparently what everybody is talking about at the conferences speech therapists go to. I think this negativity you speak of is not very common.
Last edited by Janissy on 08 May 2012, 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please make up your mind because you're really not consistent.
... from my perspective I was disagreeing with what you said...
Not sure how that would work as I don't know there are very many different definitions of interesting, though different people certainly find different things interesting.
Level of intencity in the feeling, if I say I'm interested in something it means I'll learn anything I can about it, otherwise I'd say I was curious about whatever it is. Apparently this is not the case with you, you use interested much more mildly, thus our definitions differ.
Example please? Because last time I checked sport arenas where packed with people painting their faces, protest rallies with chants and signs, people following dress codes to the letter, etc^99999.
Maybe they should require helmets for walking across the street since people have died from getting hit by cars and the resulting head injuries.
... You're kidding right? You do realise that a fall from a the equvilent hight of someone sitting on a chair is enough to kill someone if the head strikes the ground with full force. My mother used to work for the department in charge of roads and safty and was personaly involved in the Zero Vision (no one should die in trafic accidents), helmets saves thousands around the world. And thousands more would have been saved if they'd worn helmets.
And the argument itself is truely ignorant since the base element is "It will only save you if something happens...".
Sadly I don't remeber the name of the ones doing this study, but it was a very simple one, they told people they where making a new eye controled computor and asked them to try the mouse pointer, it would follow their eye movement, I don't know how many exactly where very happy with the technology, but enough for the test to be considered a success, since the mouse pointer was controled by a hidden person and not the test subjects. If you're interested in reading it I can try and find it.
And since I consider the act (I expressed this earlier, but we sliped back into mind process only) a part of the decision.
Or to simplyfy: Choosing the less logical option is not logical, even if it was logical on its own.
The person who truly does no cost-benefit analysis and spends money they can't afford or acts as though the money had already been won (instead of accepting it almost certainly won't be) is not being logical. The person in your example may be doing that. But they may also just be playing making a perfectly logical decision to exchange 1$ for the light entertainment of anticipation.
I'm afraid I failed a bit with the example, the point was not them buying a ticket in general, but chosing a specific ticket because of their "instincts" or what ever they want to call it, instead of chosing a statisticly safer option.
Edit: Ohh and aghogday, I'm sure as hell not going to answer posts that consists of people quoting themselves in real time, if I find myself spending more time trying to figure out how and where you're writing compared to understanding what you wrote, I'm just wasting time.
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