Why is love and dating extremely courtship and strategic-bas
19 Aug 2014, 2:47 am
AngelRho wrote:
You wouldn't be speed-dating, though. You wouldn't be dating anywhere remotely within the conventional sense. The primary goal is not to find "the one." The goal is to just get to know as many people as you can on a strictly casual basis. You won't necessarily actually go out with hundreds of women. It's just the more contacts you have, the easier it's going to be to find someone to hang out with on the weekend, with the understanding that you're just hanging out and having fun. You aren't going to call up 100 available women without at least person agreeing to go out with you one time. If these are women you know already, you won't make it far down the list before you find someone. After 3 or 4 rejections by the same woman, cross her off the list. I wouldn't ask her out after a rejection unless I'd made it through the list already and came back to her, which could take a long time. After 4 unreturned text messages or voicemails, I'll write her off as a fader and call it good.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
How many people have you "laid" with this method of yours? I mean had actual sex with.
19 Aug 2014, 6:33 am
rdos wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
rdos wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
In other words, stop thinking you need to appeal to the majority that likes to play games. You should be trying to appeal to the minority that agrees with you and thinks such games are stupid.
There are neurodiverse games as well, but they look radically different from the neurotypical ones. You can skip the neurodiverse games, but they are really enjoyable, so I wouldn't want to do that. It's kind of skipping the best part of it all.
Getting dumped by someone you care about is fun?
The neurodiverse route requires a lot of effort from both parties, and once it is completed you will seldom be dumped. That's simply because people won't put that much effort into a single relationship. So this rarely happens, rather if one party is not interested he/she will not participate in the game.
In my experience, it's actually quite simple and doesn't require much effort. Be up front with the person and If they aren't compatible they'll be weeded out quick. If they are, they'll stick around. Dating went so much better for me once I did that (and had a lot of fun along the way) untill I eventually met my Fiance.
19 Aug 2014, 8:48 am
AngelRho wrote:
You wouldn't be speed-dating, though. You wouldn't be dating anywhere remotely within the conventional sense. The primary goal is not to find "the one." The goal is to just get to know as many people as you can on a strictly casual basis. You won't necessarily actually go out with hundreds of women. It's just the more contacts you have, the easier it's going to be to find someone to hang out with on the weekend, with the understanding that you're just hanging out and having fun. You aren't going to call up 100 available women without at least person agreeing to go out with you one time. If these are women you know already, you won't make it far down the list before you find someone. After 3 or 4 rejections by the same woman, cross her off the list. I wouldn't ask her out after a rejection unless I'd made it through the list already and came back to her, which could take a long time. After 4 unreturned text messages or voicemails, I'll write her off as a fader and call it good.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
The f**k? And this has what to do with your actual life with this lady you've been with forever?
1. No, do not harass women who turn you down. They've already turned you down. Leave them alone.
2. And ffs, do not smear them as "faders" because they're not interested in you (go figure, uninterested in a guy who can't take a hint like "thanks but no"?). They're not interested in you because you're you. Deal.
3. This is, plainly put, a numbers game for as*holes. And women know it. We know perfectly well when a guy's calling or texting because we're walking around with vaginas on and so are on the list. It's creepy and not too many people like it.
4. Women who smile at men are not inviting the men to harass them for dates.
5. "Oh, you're still here after everyone else is gone, that must mean you're the one for me" = "guess I won't be doing any better, wanna get hitched"? Oy.
19 Aug 2014, 8:49 am
AlexanderDantes wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You wouldn't be speed-dating, though. You wouldn't be dating anywhere remotely within the conventional sense. The primary goal is not to find "the one." The goal is to just get to know as many people as you can on a strictly casual basis. You won't necessarily actually go out with hundreds of women. It's just the more contacts you have, the easier it's going to be to find someone to hang out with on the weekend, with the understanding that you're just hanging out and having fun. You aren't going to call up 100 available women without at least person agreeing to go out with you one time. If these are women you know already, you won't make it far down the list before you find someone. After 3 or 4 rejections by the same woman, cross her off the list. I wouldn't ask her out after a rejection unless I'd made it through the list already and came back to her, which could take a long time. After 4 unreturned text messages or voicemails, I'll write her off as a fader and call it good.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
How many people have you "laid" with this method of yours? I mean had actual sex with.
Because, as we all know, the thing that really counts is whether you get to stick it in.
19 Aug 2014, 9:12 am
Geekonychus wrote:
In my experience, it's actually quite simple and doesn't require much effort. Be up front with the person and If they aren't compatible they'll be weeded out quick. If they are, they'll stick around. Dating went so much better for me once I did that (and had a lot of fun along the way) untill I eventually met my Fiance.
Sure, that can work too if you are extrovert and up to that. The main thing is to weed out incompatible people before you get connected to them.
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
19 Aug 2014, 11:34 am
AlexanderDantes wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You wouldn't be speed-dating, though. You wouldn't be dating anywhere remotely within the conventional sense. The primary goal is not to find "the one." The goal is to just get to know as many people as you can on a strictly casual basis. You won't necessarily actually go out with hundreds of women. It's just the more contacts you have, the easier it's going to be to find someone to hang out with on the weekend, with the understanding that you're just hanging out and having fun. You aren't going to call up 100 available women without at least person agreeing to go out with you one time. If these are women you know already, you won't make it far down the list before you find someone. After 3 or 4 rejections by the same woman, cross her off the list. I wouldn't ask her out after a rejection unless I'd made it through the list already and came back to her, which could take a long time. After 4 unreturned text messages or voicemails, I'll write her off as a fader and call it good.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
How many people have you "laid" with this method of yours? I mean had actual sex with.
When did I say anything about sex? I'm looking at it more as setting a LTR goal.
I've only had sex with 6 women in my life and been married for the last 9 years (and I don't cheat on my wife). I've never been interested in keeping a scorecard.
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
19 Aug 2014, 12:31 pm
tarantella64 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You wouldn't be speed-dating, though. You wouldn't be dating anywhere remotely within the conventional sense. The primary goal is not to find "the one." The goal is to just get to know as many people as you can on a strictly casual basis. You won't necessarily actually go out with hundreds of women. It's just the more contacts you have, the easier it's going to be to find someone to hang out with on the weekend, with the understanding that you're just hanging out and having fun. You aren't going to call up 100 available women without at least person agreeing to go out with you one time. If these are women you know already, you won't make it far down the list before you find someone. After 3 or 4 rejections by the same woman, cross her off the list. I wouldn't ask her out after a rejection unless I'd made it through the list already and came back to her, which could take a long time. After 4 unreturned text messages or voicemails, I'll write her off as a fader and call it good.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.
If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.
Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.
The f**k? And this has what to do with your actual life with this lady you've been with forever?
1. No, do not harass women who turn you down. They've already turned you down. Leave them alone.
2. And ffs, do not smear them as "faders" because they're not interested in you (go figure, uninterested in a guy who can't take a hint like "thanks but no"?). They're not interested in you because you're you. Deal.
3. This is, plainly put, a numbers game for as*holes. And women know it. We know perfectly well when a guy's calling or texting because we're walking around with vaginas on and so are on the list. It's creepy and not too many people like it.
4. Women who smile at men are not inviting the men to harass them for dates.
5. "Oh, you're still here after everyone else is gone, that must mean you're the one for me" = "guess I won't be doing any better, wanna get hitched"? Oy.
Yeah, but you have to remember you're dealing with people who have trouble picking up on the cues/hints in a world in which people don't often say explicitly what they mean.
1. PEOPLE who turn other people down often make excuses for why they are turning other PEOPLE down. Let's get the gender identity out of the way since the issue here isn't gender-specific. I've asked people out on dates before and typically the answer I'd get is "Oh, I'm playing tennis," "I'm going out of town," "I have x," "I have y?" I mean, a whole host of reasons not to get together?which says to ME that things could work out on a different day, so I'm going to try to alter things to figure out how to either make it work or reschedule my plans for a different day to fit her schedule. It's not going to immediately occur to me that the answer is "NO" unless she explicitly says "NO." The safest way to go is assume an excuse to be a negative unless the other person actually takes the initiative for a rain check.
The thing that gets in the way is someone making an excuse might actually be telling the truth, which is why there's no shame in contacting someone multiple times to ask them out. Ask someone out 3 or 4 time in as many months and get turned down each time, it's safe to say you tried and there's no point in wasting time trying to see this person.
2. A fade is a fade regardless of the circumstances. It's not an attack on the person--it's calling something what it is. Again, you're dealing with people who might not exactly understand that one date doesn't necessarily have to lead to more dates or that liking someone doesn't mean that person likes you back. He or she cuts off all contact after a single date, assume that they've done you a favor. Heck, you want to fade someone after one date, do it. You're not in a serious relationship, you owe them nothing. But, like I said earlier, there COULD be good reasons why texts/voicemails don't get returned, so I say give someone the benefit of the doubt. 4 calls in as many months, and it's reasonable to assume they really don't want to talk.
3. Not a numbers game at all. Nobody is looking to score here. You just want to try to get to know someone and you're two friends hanging out for 60-90 minutes. You don't even have to be alone together?going out with a group of friends will be a lot more secure earlier on, carry less pressure and fewer expectations.
Creepy? Idk?I have a list of current/former students in my address book. Does it make me creepy to verify a lesson time or contact new prospective piano students? Or if I get "stood up" is it creepy to ask why an appointment was missed and/or reschedule? BTW, I do this in pencil and students who "fade" me get rubbed out. I keep notes on people when there are relevant things to remember about them, or if I need to set teaching/learning goals/strategies, I write that down. Every now and then I write down text messages and summarize voicemails. If I DON'T, I can't stay organized and focused.
Keeping an address book and a journal are good ways of keeping up with who you know and what you know about them, track who you share a mutual interest with, and evaluate how things are going. There's no shame in that. But I don't share my journal/contacts with anyone, and I think sharing a journal with anyone is a bad idea. I'm not suggesting keeping a journal as a way to keep score. I'm just suggesting a more organized approach at meeting new people and tracking progress the same way you'd keep up with work.
4. Not everyone who smiles at anyone is asking to be harassed for dates. I'd say no one is ever asking to be harassed for dates, to be more accurate. Not sure where this is coming from, though, but I'd say putting a strict limit on the number of times you ask someone out is a safe way to avoid unknowingly harassing a person. The issue I'm trying to address is some people have a difficult time picking up on that.
The litmus test for me would be after I'd called/texted someone 4 times, after which I could be certain they had my info and eventually, when she wants to, get in touch with me. I just don't want to assume that the reason she didn't call me back was because I didn't really have a chance. Could be a lost/stolen phone/changed number, could be she was in a freak car accident and was in the hospital the whole time, could be she meant to and just forgot and deleted message/lost number by accident. Could be random string of severely bad luck. If there's no pattern to my calling her a few times, chances are she'd pick up AT LEAST once, so after 4 times over a loooong period of time, it's safe to assume my timing is SERIOUSLY just bad or she really doesn't want to talk to ME. So unless the actual circumstances are really just that extreme and I can't get through, I'll assume she'll call if she wants to. That's not harassment. If she calls me back a year later and is interested in going out with me, then I got my answer.
5. Yeah, but the last person standing IS the most compatible. If you can avoid getting hung up on people you don't share a mutual attraction with, the last person you are both attracted to AND get reciprocation with IS the friend you form a LTR with. Think about it?if it's the first person and you continue seeing someone else, that means you are cheating. If your goal is a monogamous LTR and possibly look towards marriage?at any rate, a long-term exclusive relationship?the last person you're with is your best bet by default. If you've really got "chemistry" with that person, you're not settling for the leftovers. If you DON'T have that mutual chemistry, then?duh?keep looking.
To summarize: Make friends, try to see them as often as possible. Whoever you enjoy spending the most time with and who reciprocates those feelings will be your best shot at a LTR. There's no point in jumping the gun, setting laser sights on ONE person and wishing on a star for him/her to be IT.
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
19 Aug 2014, 12:49 pm
rdos wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
In my experience, it's actually quite simple and doesn't require much effort. Be up front with the person and If they aren't compatible they'll be weeded out quick. If they are, they'll stick around. Dating went so much better for me once I did that (and had a lot of fun along the way) untill I eventually met my Fiance.
Sure, that can work too if you are extrovert and up to that. The main thing is to weed out incompatible people before you get connected to them.
Why be in such a hurry to form a connection?
(I'm not an extrovert, btw?I'm very good doing a small number of things which happen to get attention. I don't care about the attention or even want it, it's just how it happens. I suck at small talk, but I find the more people I talk to the easier it is to find one person who is going to hang around and listen, possibly even share that interest. I don't have an easy solution, I just know what works for me. The short answer is focus on your interests, do what you do, and just see who shows up to talk about it. I'd question how much priority I'd give forming connections, especially if that means jumping into a relationship or trying to push for a relationship before the other person really wants to. I feel attracted to other women and feel "connected" in a sense to other women all the time, but that doesn't make it right to pursue them. At this point in my life what *I* feel I want is a lot less important than meeting the needs of those in my care. I wouldn't be the biggest loser if I walked out, however those who would be mean much more to me than my own whims.)
19 Aug 2014, 1:55 pm
AngelRho wrote:
Why be in such a hurry to form a connection?
Because I cannot "date" somebody without forming a connection. For me, the connection is always the first thing, and then it might lead to something more. Sure, I have a few female friends as well, but they are not relationship material. I don't think I ever went from friendship to a relationship, but it could work for others I'm sure.
BTW, I'm married since 20+ years, and the things I talk about were things I did before I married. I'm no longer looking for relationships.
.
19 Aug 2014, 4:39 pm
hurtloam wrote:
Please don't say: "...and treat you like a lady." That's a bit cringy.
"I'd like to get to know you better. Do you want to go for a coffee?" is fine.
Or if you're somewhere with her: "I've enjoyed this conversation. Do you want to go for a coffee?"
You don't need any fancy-schmancy mock chivillary. It's creepy.
But yeah, if she says no, she means no and just accept that.
"I'd like to get to know you better. Do you want to go for a coffee?" is fine.
Or if you're somewhere with her: "I've enjoyed this conversation. Do you want to go for a coffee?"
You don't need any fancy-schmancy mock chivillary. It's creepy.
But yeah, if she says no, she means no and just accept that.
I agree. A man that I used to work with said that to me and I told him I wasn't interested. I also have Gender Dysphoria as well meaning that I'm a man trapped in body that has all the wrong parts, so it was twice as creepy for me as it would be for the average *cough* woman.
_________________
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24 Aug 2014, 10:03 am
You've practically changed the way I look at dating AngelRho.
Seriously.
After reading through ALL of your messages, you've made me realize the true "cheat" to finding "the one", or at least the person you know things will last for a long time with.
This strategy you speak of, that removes all emotions, and where you focus on logically and rationally building a ridiculously large social network of multiple people of multiple personalities until you meet the one that is truly for you, it's ingenious!
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