Sperm donor was AS
17 Sep 2014, 8:17 pm
If people have a problem with IVF they should protest it's existence using legal avenues.
As for it being a gamble.. how would it be fair if a Chinese baby were born to a white couple if they have no idea what the culture is like? They may grow up feeling isolated and like they do not belong.
17 Sep 2014, 8:29 pm
I think any baby would be happy to be in a loving safe home regardless of the culture. Babies bond to those who care for them. They can study their heritage later if they're even interested. And frankly I'm surprised to hear the sentiment of your last sentence. I don't know why you would think the child would feel that way.
_________________
People are strange, when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone.
Morrison/Krieger
17 Sep 2014, 9:14 pm
I think any baby would be happy to be in a loving safe home regardless of the culture. Babies bond to those who care for them. They can study their heritage later if they're even interested. And frankly I'm surprised to hear the sentiment of your last sentence. I don't know why you would think the child would feel that way.
They may if the parents have asked for a child of their own race and then suddenly get one of a different race. The same thing has happened with adoption. Cultural Identity is very important.
17 Sep 2014, 9:22 pm
One such example is a baby getting rejected for having down syndrome. Now this story is highly complex and disturbing. The baby was rejected for having a disability yet the biological father who donated the sperm was a convicted child molester. There are suspicions as to why he wanted the "normal" girl in the first place and going by the interview I saw with the father it was not for the good of the daughter. It's all well and good to say "Well if the parents reject a baby that is their own fault for going through IVF". I agree to a point but I think it is best to minimize the risk of the child being rejected. Political idealism won't help those babies with disabilities who get rejected.
Baby Gammy story takes startling turn as extreme options revealed
18 Sep 2014, 2:36 am
I think the point the previous poster made was that having a child with a different culture (or race) is hardly going to be as big an impact on a family as having a child with autism or down's syndrome.
I'm guessing your dragging poor little Gammy into this discussion indicate you have reservations about interracial adoption or surrogacy?
18 Sep 2014, 9:55 am
I think the point the previous poster made was that having a child with a different culture (or race) is hardly going to be as big an impact on a family as having a child with autism or down's syndrome.
It depends on the level of disability. Some with DS are fairly functional as are ASD.. some are not which is what the OP is risking all for the sake of his ego.
I "dragged" him into the discussion as he is an example where biological parents have rejected a child because he had a disability rather than his race and alot of lying was involved. I used race as an example for comparison where someone has wanted one kind of child and got another. I think Gammy is very fortunate to have the mother he has. They look beautiful together, she clearly wants him and loves him so I do not think he's "poor Gammy". He could have a very bright future.
With race.. it really depends on the parents and how they raise them. I've known adoptees who had very little exposure to their culture and grew up with that heavily impacting their identity and they ended up pissed off not knowing where they came from. The whole idea of surrogacy is not something I'm against but I have many reservations about picking babies from a catalogue. They are people not products or political placards.
18 Sep 2014, 11:52 pm
This is more a reflection of the wider majority who choose (because of ignorance) to make race an issue. Race is an artificial construct with little biological meaning. The issue that is far more important for an adoptee is to find out if their biological parents had a heritable (genetic) trait that they passed on. Knowing their forefathers nationality is less important.
Designer babies are virtually here. People can choose the gender of the child through screening ova or sperm. It's a matter of time before gametes can be selected for high performance traits (atheticism, IQ). appearance (good looking) and to avoid heritable diseases/conditions. The latter will be taken up en masse. We can't stop what people call progress.
19 Sep 2014, 3:32 pm
I think that would be a fair statement. If society is going to do this I think it should be a gamble. Or alternatively as a tool of the government to manipulate the development of the species, hopefully for the better.
Lets be realistic. EVERYONE at some level chooses traits for their children. Not specifically, of course, but the odds for them. It IS something people think about when selecting a spouse. To say otherwise would be pretending human instinct isn't what it is.
The difference is choosing a category of possibilities, and accepting all that can happen with that, v. trying to get a guarantee. The former is something humans have always done and always will do; it is a natural part of evolution. The later is the road we should not start down.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
19 Sep 2014, 3:44 pm
This is borderline racist.
If the baby is rejected, then blame wholly lies with the parents doing the rejecting. I feel very uncomfortable with the idea of not allowing babies to be born just to appease bigots.
19 Sep 2014, 8:50 pm
This is borderline racist.
So if black parents end up with a white baby (from a embryo mix up for example) that is racist?
If the baby is rejected, then blame wholly lies with the parents doing the rejecting. I feel very uncomfortable with the idea of not allowing babies to be born just to appease bigots.
Likewise babies should not be born to appease someone who is so motivated by NT bigotry he lies about having HFA. IVF is not there to be used as a political weapon. How is he being less bigoted?
Last edited by riley on 19 Sep 2014, 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
19 Sep 2014, 9:31 pm
This is more a reflection of the wider majority who choose (because of ignorance) to make race an issue. Race is an artificial construct with little biological meaning. The issue that is far more important for an adoptee is to find out if their biological parents had a heritable (genetic) trait that they passed on. Knowing their forefathers nationality is less important.
I agree race is for the most part a social construct. Most are not aware that (for one example) it is only small changes in evolutionary adaption that created blue eyes/white skin (just in order to absorb more sunlight/vitamin d in colder climates etc). Society on the whole does view it as important however depending on the culture. "Christian" culture had forced adoptions for black babies in order to "raise them properly".. regardless of how loving they may have thought themselves it is still imposing something that was based on political idealism. Again.. I only used race as an example as ASD has been talked about just being a mere "difference" in the genome like it is a race/creed unto itself when it is not. Race is literally skin while ASD can create a numerous amount of real neurological challenges that children have to work through but some refuse to believe this.
Designer babies are virtually here. People can choose the gender of the child through screening ova or sperm. It's a matter of time before gametes can be selected for high performance traits (atheticism, IQ). appearance (good looking) and to avoid heritable diseases/conditions. The latter will be taken up en masse. We can't stop what people call progress.
Agreed.
22 Sep 2014, 7:39 am
So much self-righteous and hateful people out here, and so much finger-pointing. Still roughly one third of this site understands the moral reasoning behind what I did and has respect for my choices and the way in which I choose to combat the discrimination of our kind by those who feel superior to us. If I was only able to get through to one person on this site, one single soul who now agrees with me and who previously did not, then my presence on this site and my debating on this particular topic has not been in vain.
I was not afraid to be judged when I came here and posted this; I stood strong in my beliefs then and I still do now. I wish to make it known that I have every understanding of the implications of what I have done but I did what I did to prove a point and make a fist against those who wish to see me and mine disappear. For this I have been called a psychopath, a lunatic, a sociopath and a narcissist. For this I have been compared to thieves, criminals, rapists and serial killers. What I did has been called rape... rape, no less, by people who I know detest me. It's also been called misogynistic and anti-women while, as another member rightfully pointed out, I am sure they would not soon call a woman on the spectrum donating her eggs misandrist. It's all incredibly two-faced and hypocritical.
Let me make it clear, right here and right now! I am not the following things:
-Lacking empathy
-Sociopath
-Psychopath
-Rapist
-Hater of women
-Hater of NT
-A conman
-A criminal
What am I, then, if nothing else? I am a man. A man like any other, with rights like any other which I saw myself deprived of by a discriminatory policy. I am a man who does not bow down and back out when faced with difficulty, who does not hide from his problems but confronts them and who does accept his fate like a coward when denied his rights. I am a man who stands up for what he believes in and acts accordingly. I am a survivor and I am not a defeatist, and I stand strong in this knowledge.
_________________
Often misunderstood, and at the same time forever trying to understand others
22 Sep 2014, 12:55 pm
I'm not sure what facility the OP went to. However, here are two links to the actual health questionnaires used at such facilities:
http://www.sjfert.com/wp-content/upload ... n-1-11.pdf
https://www.xytex.com/pdf/8000.1.MHQ.pdf
They specifically ask about autism. Looking around, I have the impression that is typical.
It is possible that the facility the OP went to did not specifically ask about autism. However, the facilities ask about inheritable diseases, conditions, disorders... basically ask every which way if the donor has anything diagnosed that could possibly be inherited.
That said: The OP also ASKED in the poll "Is it immoral?".
Asked opinions. You are going to get feedback on a question like that. And you may not like it.
_________________
I don't know about other people, but when I wake up in the morning and put my shoes on, I think, "Jesus Christ, now what?"
-C. Bukowski
22 Sep 2014, 2:09 pm
I was not afraid to be judged when I came here and posted this; I stood strong in my beliefs then and I still do now. I wish to make it known that I have every understanding of the implications of what I have done but I did what I did to prove a point and make a fist against those who wish to see me and mine disappear. For this I have been called a psychopath, a lunatic, a sociopath and a narcissist. For this I have been compared to thieves, criminals, rapists and serial killers. What I did has been called rape... rape, no less, by people who I know detest me. It's also been called misogynistic and anti-women while, as another member rightfully pointed out, I am sure they would not soon call a woman on the spectrum donating her eggs misandrist. It's all incredibly two-faced and hypocritical.
Let me make it clear, right here and right now! I am not the following things:
-Lacking empathy
-Sociopath
-Psychopath
-Rapist
-Hater of women
-Hater of NT
-A conman
-A criminal
What am I, then, if nothing else? I am a man. A man like any other, with rights like any other which I saw myself deprived of by a discriminatory policy. I am a man who does not bow down and back out when faced with difficulty, who does not hide from his problems but confronts them and who does accept his fate like a coward when denied his rights. I am a man who stands up for what he believes in and acts accordingly. I am a survivor and I am not a defeatist, and I stand strong in this knowledge.
I am curious, what is your success rate with your methods for confronting problems? How often have you made things worse instead of better?
It is one thing to feel like you've done something to challenge an issue, it is another thing entirely to do something that is actually effective in creating change.
I highly doubt that you have changed any opinions in this thread; you've been too confrontational for that, in my opinion. Confrontation tends to make people angry and hard, instead of affecting actual change, in my experience. But maybe yours is different.
I am usually EXTREMELY effective at getting what I want, by the way. There are times to put someone with your general attitude and style into play, but I do not believe this is one of them.
Do you have any way to measure the results of your methods? Towards achieving your stated goals?
I still think your biggest problem is that this will all backfire.
You have rather conveniently failed to acknowledge any of my previous comments, so will you address this one?
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
Last edited by DW_a_mom on 23 Sep 2014, 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
