Wow. Even conservative Ireland covers gender reassignment!

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beneficii
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21 Sep 2014, 9:58 am

Even the highly Catholic, conservative Republic of Ireland will cover gender reassignment and will pay to send patients to have it done abroad!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/h ... -1.1933352

This makes me even angrier, because I wonder when am I ever going to access gender reassignment surgery, being stuck here in red-state, USA working for a Fortune 1000 company that doesn't seem to be very receptive to providing coverage? When is my time going to come? Will it ever come? I tell you, a whole life without being able to access gender reassignment surgery by, say, the age of 35-40, is a life that is not worth very much to me.


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eric76
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21 Sep 2014, 4:38 pm

I fail to understand why if we must have socialized medicine, it should cover anything that has nothing to do with returning oneself to health when sick or injured.



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21 Sep 2014, 5:10 pm

eric76 wrote:
I fail to understand why if we must have socialized medicine, it should cover anything that has nothing to do with returning oneself to health when sick or injured.


In a way I understand the OP's POV, but I also know how Medicaid and state funded medical care works. The OP is saying "I am a woman by gender yet I was born with a penis and this needs to be corrected so I can be who I am" but on the other hand, state funded medicine isn't going to cover things that aren't deemed "essential". An example is if I had cancer in both breasts and had Medicaid, they would pay for a double mastectomy and chemo, etc, but they wouldn't cover reconstructive surgery to give me breasts back, which can be part of someone's identity as a woman. They would tell me to be satisfied with fake boobs or save my money and buy the surgery myself. I can understand that because if the choice was to pay for my reconstructive surgery or to pay for someone else's lifesaving mastectomy and chemo, the lifesaving surgery is more important, no matter how much it would damage me psychologically it wouldn't damage me physically. Of course I could choose to damage myself physically because of the psychological damage, but they would see that as something that is within my control and could be managed by antidepressants.


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beneficii
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21 Sep 2014, 5:15 pm

eric76 wrote:
I fail to understand why if we must have socialized medicine, it should cover anything that has nothing to do with returning oneself to health when sick or injured.


Gender reassignment surgery is a recommended treatment in certain appropriately evaluated cases of gender dysphoria, which can be a serious medical condition. For those cases of gender dysphoria, it is considered the gold standard in treating gender dysphoria. Reparative therapy, trying to change the person's gender identity, on the other hand, is ineffective and may be harmful.

As multiple studies show, proper treatment of gender dysphoria can greatly reduce suicidality:

Quote:
A meta-analysis published in 2010 by Murad, et al., of patients who received currently excluded
treatments demonstrated that there was a significant decrease in suicidality post-treatment. The
average reduction was from 30 percent pretreatment to 8 percent post treatment.

De Cuypere, et al., reported that the rate of suicide attempts dropped dramatically from 29.3
percent to 5.1 percent after receiving medical and surgical treatment among Dutch patients
treated from 1986-2001.

According to Dr. Ryan Gorton, ?In a cross-sectional study of 141 transgender patients, Kuiper
and Cohen-Kittenis found that after medical intervention and treatments, suicide fell from 19
percent to zero percent in transgender men and from 24 percent to 6 percent in transgender
women.)?

Clements-Nolle, et al., studied the predictors of suicide among over 500 transgender men and
women in a sample from San Francisco and found a prevalence of suicide attempts of 32
percent. In this study, the strongest predictor associated with the risk of suicide was gender
based discrimination which included ?problems getting health or medical services due to their
gender identity or presentation.? According to Gorton, ?Notably, this gender-based
discrimination was a more reliable predictor of suicide than depression, history of alcohol/drug
abuse treatment, physical victimization, or sexual assault.?


http://transgenderlawcenter.org/wp-cont ... urance.pdf

The California Department of Insurance believed that it was likely there would be medium- to long-term benefits for the state as a whole to making sure access to treatment of gender dysphoria was available to all Californians.

The major health organizations have called for third-party coverage of medically necessary treatments of gender dysphoria:

http://www.lambdalegal.org/sites/defaul ... alth_4.pdf


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21 Sep 2014, 9:23 pm

What it comes down to is money.

A lady I know is having trouble having her CARDIO medicine covered!

A friend at work could not get antibiotics covered, following dental surgery!

The decision-makers have to prioritize medically necessary meds and treatments.

As OliveOilMom pointed out, a woman can survive mastectomies, and live without reconstructive surgery.....many have.

Just having to live with bodies that they hate looking at.

As long as veterans cannot get the life saving care that they deserve, and people in prisons are getting sick, sicker, and dying due to inadequate medical care, the government cannot and will not agree to expensive procedures of psychological benefit.


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21 Sep 2014, 9:42 pm

The military here in Canada covers it but for civilians they have to pay for it. I'm not sure if they have to pay for the HRT as well (in the past I believe it was mandatory to pay, but health care may cover it now)



beneficii
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22 Sep 2014, 8:38 am

andrethemoogle wrote:
The military here in Canada covers it but for civilians they have to pay for it. I'm not sure if they have to pay for the HRT as well (in the past I believe it was mandatory to pay, but health care may cover it now)


I believe that in most provinces (covering up to 95% of the population) cover it in their public health plans. About payment, I've heard different things, but I think the surgery is paid for at least. I heard from one British Columbia woman, though, who said she needed to find her own transport to Montreal to have it done (but I told her about a special service for Canadians who need treatment in a different province). Another British Columbia woman said she would have to cover her own recuperation costs but that otherwise the surgery was covered.


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22 Sep 2014, 8:43 am

eric76 wrote:
I fail to understand why if we must have socialized medicine, it should cover anything that has nothing to do with returning oneself to health when sick or injured.


I agree partially. It is cutting healthy flesh and therefore medically not needed. However if someone would become seriously depressed without the surgery (which as I understand it is often the case) then there is definitely a reason for this surgery to take place.

It's also very expensive which I believe is the biggest issue with it. I would not soon spend my tax money on such a thing. But if someone talks to a psychiatrist about this extensively and would otherwise commit suicide... I don't know, there may be a reason behind this that is very much legitimate, if not life-saving.

A very complicate matter.


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beneficii
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22 Sep 2014, 9:06 am

Sylkat wrote:
What it comes down to is money.

A lady I know is having trouble having her CARDIO medicine covered!

A friend at work could not get antibiotics covered, following dental surgery!

The decision-makers have to prioritize medically necessary meds and treatments.

As OliveOilMom pointed out, a woman can survive mastectomies, and live without reconstructive surgery.....many have.

Just having to live with bodies that they hate looking at.

As long as veterans cannot get the life saving care that they deserve, and people in prisons are getting sick, sicker, and dying due to inadequate medical care, the government cannot and will not agree to expensive procedures of psychological benefit.


Well, actually, some governments in the United States kinda just did. On May 30, Medicare, the federal health plan for the disabled and retired, removed its ban on covering sex reassignment surgery:

http://www.hhs.gov/dab/decisions/dabdec ... ab2576.pdf

The Oregon Health Plan (Oregon's Medicaid) just added it to its list of covered services.

Coverage of sex reassignment surgery has finally begun to increase in this country, and we are finding that the cost of increasing such coverage is minimal. Indeed, the California Department of Insurance bulletin I posted earlier in this thread says there are likely to be medium- to long-term benefits of increasing coverage.

As for reconstructive surgery after breast cancer, is coverage for that not now a federal mandate?

Either way, the increased coverage of these services is not blocking your friend from getting her cardio medicine, your friend from getting their antibiotics, veterans from getting the care they need, or people in prison getting the care they need (a problem I know all too well). They are problems that need to get tackled, but keeping a small group of people with gender dysphoria in agony by denying us access to medically necessary care is not the way to do it, neither would blocking women getting reconstructive surgery after mastectomy due to breast cancer from getting what they need.

Instead, you're just letting yourself be played by a divide-and-conquer game, a game where the medical needs you mentioned must necessarily be opposed by and interfered with by the medical needs I mention. It doesn't have to be like that, you know?

If you care about those medical needs, then you should fight FOR them, instead of fighting AGAINST another group of people to prevent our needs from getting met. The latter strategy would just keep this miserable status quo going on for everybody as you are not actually fighting FOR anything, but only AGAINST. Advocating FOR them can get the groups you care about get helped while at the same time NOT interfering with help for other groups.


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Last edited by beneficii on 22 Sep 2014, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

beneficii
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22 Sep 2014, 9:24 am

Charloz wrote:
eric76 wrote:
I fail to understand why if we must have socialized medicine, it should cover anything that has nothing to do with returning oneself to health when sick or injured.


I agree partially. It is cutting healthy flesh and therefore medically not needed. However if someone would become seriously depressed without the surgery (which as I understand it is often the case) then there is definitely a reason for this surgery to take place.

It's also very expensive which I believe is the biggest issue with it. I would not soon spend my tax money on such a thing. But if someone talks to a psychiatrist about this extensively and would otherwise commit suicide... I don't know, there may be a reason behind this that is very much legitimate, if not life-saving.

A very complicate matter.


Rest assured that it is not something that you as a taxpayer would pay for on a whim, neither as a premium payer. Under no health plan that covers it can a person just come out of the blue, demand surgery, and get it immediately. A person qualifies under a specific, deliberative process as specified in the WPATH standards (as well as standards put out by the Endocrine Society), starting usually with psychotherapy to ensure that gender transition is what the person wants (and needs) to move ahead with, then moving on to hormones and real-life experience. Only then, if the person with gender dysphoria is still suffering dysphoria from their genitals and is otherwise physically and mentally healthy (or at least stable), would surgery be contemplated. Here is an example of requirements for the surgery on the Aetna plans that cover it:

Quote:
1. Two referral letters from qualified mental health professionals, one in a purely evaluative role (see appendix); and
2. Persistent, well-documented gender dysphoria (see Appendix); and
3. Capacity to make a fully informed decision and to consent for treatment; and
4. Age of majority (age 18 years and older); and
5. If significant medical or mental health concerns are present, they must be reasonably well controlled; and
6. Twelve months of continuous hormone therapy as appropriate to the member?s gender goals (unless the member has a medical contraindication or is otherwise unable or unwilling to take hormones); and
7. Twelve months of living in a gender role that is congruent with their gender identity (real life experience).


http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0615.html

These are pretty strict requirements that require consistently faithful adherence to the medical and social regimen prescribed by the standards. This helps limit the provision of surgery to those who demonstrate a real and consistent need, where surgery is best.


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beneficii
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22 Sep 2014, 12:03 pm

beneficii wrote:
andrethemoogle wrote:
The military here in Canada covers it but for civilians they have to pay for it. I'm not sure if they have to pay for the HRT as well (in the past I believe it was mandatory to pay, but health care may cover it now)


I believe that in most provinces (covering up to 95% of the population) cover it in their public health plans. About payment, I've heard different things, but I think the surgery is paid for at least. I heard from one British Columbia woman, though, who said she needed to find her own transport to Montreal to have it done (but I told her about a special service for Canadians who need treatment in a different province). Another British Columbia woman said she would have to cover her own recuperation costs but that otherwise the surgery was covered.


And I must say, I am intensely jealous of these women.


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beneficii
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22 Sep 2014, 12:43 pm

eric76 wrote:
I fail to understand why if we must have socialized medicine, it should cover anything that has nothing to do with returning oneself to health when sick or injured.


To more directly answer your question, not all countries with universal health care cover SRS, such as Japan--though there has recently been a petition for it. Some cover it a little, but not nearly enough to pay for all of it, like Australia. New Zealand pays for a really old, suboptimal procedure with a years-long waiting list--and I believe the doctor that performed it has since retired, leaving no one to receive it.

Nevertheless, it does appear that in many countries with universal health care it is covered. I think it's because they know that for certain appropriately selected patients with gender dysphoria they can ultimately save more money by not having to pay for the debilitating depression, the suicidality, and other problems that result from not treating. The health care system is on the hook regardless of the patient's condition.

It was different in the U.S., because we had a fragmented system. For private plans, the insurers could reject those with pre-existing conditions (so those who had already started transition by, say, taking hormones could simply be rejected). The insurer didn't need to take on the cost. For those for whom gender dysphoria started after getting on the plan, it was still worth more to deny coverage because once the patient started getting more expensive, like say if they started to develop debilitating depression or suicidality, then the insurance plan could simply drop them, leaving them to wallow in agony without access to effective treatment of any sort. Private insurers have now largely lost the ability to do that, so we'll see how much of an expansion of coverage we can get on private plans; coverage has expanded in certain states, but that has been largely due to being required by the government. Nevertheless, in California the government required coverage of mastectomy and hormone therapy, but not bottom surgery, but Kaiser Permanente, a California insurer, went ahead and started covering bottom surgery on its plans on the exchange, anyway, so they might now be understanding the balance of the costs.

Another reason it has not been covered can be found in this link, the 2014 Medicare ruling removing the ban on covering sex reassignment surgery, that looked back at a 1981 Medicare decision on the matter as it looked at 9 follow-up studies that stretched from 3 months all the way up to 13 years (p. 18) (replaced brackets with parentheses) (emphases added):

Quote:
The 1981 report (on transsexual surgery) summarized the findings of nine studies on ?[t]he result or outcome of? transsexual surgery. NCD record at 15-18. With respect to those studies, the report stated that ?surgical complications are frequent, and a very small number of post-surgical suicides and psychotic breakdowns are reported.? Id. at 17-18. However, the report also acknowledged that eight of those nine studies ?report that most transsexuals show improved adjustment on a variety of criteria after sex reassignment surgery, and that ?(i)n all of these studies the large majority of those who received surgery report that they are personally satisfied with the change(.)? NCD Record at 17. Notwithstanding its discussion of these studies, the 1981 report (and the NCD) cited an alleged ?lack of well controlled, long term studies of the safety and effectiveness of the surgical procedures and attendant therapies for transsexualism? as a ground for finding the procedures ?experimental.? Id. at 19. The 1981 report did not define ?long term? for the purpose of assigning weight to study results and the NCD record provided no clarification of that phrase. The 1981 report noted ?post-operative followup? and ?followup? times for eight of the nine studies on the outcomes of surgery, with ?average,? ?mean? or ?median? periods ranging from 25 months to over eight years, and individual periods from three months to 13 years. NCD Record at 15-17. If these studies do not qualify as acceptable long-term studies, the basis for such a conclusion is not adequately explained in the NCD record.


http://www.hhs.gov/dab/decisions/dabdec ... ab2576.pdf

Medicare tends to set the example for coverage, so this decision encouraged many private and public insurers to cease covering it, but as you can see from the Departmental Appeals Board's determination as quoted above, the original analysis that led to this chain of decisions that deprived American gender dysphoric people of access to medically necessary care was flawed, because they clearly cherrypicked what studies they considered acceptable, ignoring the studies that disagreed with their predetermined conclusion--they gave no reason why they left certain studies out. In the trans community, we suspect that an unholy alliance between the radical feminists, represented particularly by a paper written by Janice Raymond that said, "I contend that the problem with transsexualism would best be served by morally mandating it out of existence," and the Reaganites created the political pressure that led to this flawed decision in 1981, a blade aimed straight at the heart of the trans community from which we are just now finally beginning to recover. Prior to that decision, gender reassignment was generally covered by both private and public insurers in the United States.


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