Am I even a person?

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If AngelRho could stop with the passive-aggressive "advice", that'd be great.

And ToySoldier, I used to. A couple year ago I dropped 60 pounds, was doing quite well. Didn't make one damn bit of difference. I've long learned the normal rules just don't apply to me, for whatever reasons. Too fundamentally different from people, I guess. Now I'm in a new environment with a steady job, I'm trying to get in decent shape again, but it's not going to help. Frankly, if people did start getting interested in me after getting into better shape, it would just confirm for me that they're shallow. This goes back to my catch-22 I referenced in an earlier post; I share a mutual disinterest with the vast majority of people, but I still need basic connection. I hate being alone, but almost everyone I meet just makes me feel even lonelier. I really don't know what to do at this point.

Wait?PASSIVE??? lol

I understand you don't want to be told the same classic advice for getting into relationships or getting affection or at the very least just not being alone. At issue is your willingness to actually do something about it. If you spurn what others have to offer from practical experience and having to work through the same or even worse issues as you, all I can say is you get what you get.

Look, I'm really sorry about what you're going through. I truly am. I'd like to see things get better for you. Lashing out at people trying to help won't win you any more friends.

Another way to look at your problem: Your apparent catch-22 is just confirmation bias. It's that simple. As long as you maintain that attitude, everything you see or experience in relating to other people is only going to confirm what you think you already know. If you want out of the catch-22, look past anything that would supposedly "confirm" that other people are shallow. If you work to get someone's attention, accept that attention when you get it. And rather than becoming some sort of glory hog by getting in shape, etc., focus more on what the other person wants. Get her talking about herself and keep her talking about herself. After that, if you want a hug or whatever, all you have to do is ask.

I do get what your saying. And it is harder for autistics to find good relationships. You are going to therefore probably have to keep at it longer (the looking) and also try harder in that you have to learn things along the way. There's no guarantee it will happen, but the chances are better if you keep trying.

As far as shallowness goes. I don't think all concern or interest in appearances is shallow. Some is, if that is an overly important part (or the only part) of someone's interest in you. But even good partners will still very likely need to be attracted to you. Relationships have a physical as well as psychological linkage. I know I couldn't be in a total relationship with someone I didn't find attractive or at least acceptable to my senses. I suspect most are more or less the same. But a person doesn't have to be a model to be attractive. Average looks coupled with taking care of yourself is really all that's needed. And once a relationship does occur, it is important to maintain a certain level of care about your looks. Not for yourself so much as for your partner. Its something you do for them.

Statistically, more autistic relationships start later in life. So really you are just in the beginning stages. I didn't find my life partner till I was 27. My brother didn't find his till 35. Many occur even well beyond that. If its really important to you, you can't give up on it. I don't think you will be happy until it happens.

And of course you don't a swarm of people. Just one.

It's like I posted at the start, you tell the guy to do this and that, chances are he already does these things and they don't help.

People here do a very good job of ignoring the most insightful posts, IMHO.

It's about discrimination at the end of the day, NTs can't stand to see us happy in our own way. We have to pretend to be like them and be miserable. That's the way it works. There are not enough autistic women for the autistic men and so the heterosexuals among us are doomed to loneliness. I love how people who have not experienced this for themselves are quick to offer advice about how some time in the gym will fix everything. Keep dreaming.

I'm sure if you ignore this post hard enough, it will go away, or maybe not. Regardless, the truth of the situation is exactly as I stated it. And I'm not going to stop until I get at least one person with some IQ points to rub together to say, yeah, maybe you do have a point there.

Humans need love. Dogs need a list of instructions. Somewhere along the line these two things got confused.

You can be fat and disgusting and ignorant and get a girlfriend, as long as you're an NT. But heaven forbid you have aspergers, that's when you;re the scum that doesn;t deserve love and you have to sit beg and roll over and then maybe, one day, you might, possibly, get some love, if the stars align.

I'm actually dying for someone to prove me wrong. Do you think it makes me happy knowing this? f**k no.

Prove me wrong. PROVE. ME. WRONG.

Does anyone have the balls to reply to this?

Truthfully, there are many Spectrumites who are in satisfying relationships.

And many Spectrumites sell themselves short.

You don't have to play the Fonz or whatever. You don't have to have a car. A job would be nice, though.

I'm a somewhat happily-married man. Married to an NT. I've had relationships with people with various disorders. I've been with quite a few women. I was actually pretty promiscuous in my twenties, much less so afterwards.

I had lots of trouble with relationships when I was younger. Then I learned: the secret is to not seem desperate. After I learned that--when I was in my mid-twenties--I became more successful.

I'm an okay-looking man. I'm short. I've been overweight at various times in my life (including now).

My "court-jester" persona has served me well.

jerryoo, you should check your PMs...I sent you a message back after your first post.

And kraftiekortie, I can relate to some of that...but just the fact that you even had the option of being "promiscuous" shows you can't get my situation.

Look, I appreciate what some of you are tying to do. But it's becoming pretty clear that most of you don't get where I'm coming from. So, thanks for confirming that I am indeed less than a person.

It depends how you are defining "person." My definition does not include having a partner.

C'mon....you're still a young guy. I wouldn't give up as of yet.

When I was 22, I was still having at least as much trouble as you finding somebody.

I think the key, really, is to just lay back, and let things happen. I didn't "let things" happen in my early 20's--and I suffered as a result--similar to how you're suffering now.

John Keats used that approach in his poetry. Yes, he died at 25--but he's one of the most eminent poets in history.

I'm married with three kids. Am I completely satisfied with life? No. Do I get mistreated by NTs? All the time. Does that define me or change a single thing about what I feel is the best direction of my life? Maybe to a tiny degree, but for the most part NO.

Look, being married, having children, and having the freedom to do pretty much whatever I want despite what anyone thinks of me, NT or otherwise, has never been enough to satisfy me. Everything worthwhile in life for me has fallen WAY short of satisfying. If it were satisfying, at some point I'd have to say, "OK, been there, done that?bored now?" I don't want to rest. I don't want to be satisfied because I take joy in at least making the effort to improve things for myself and others. The only satisfaction I have in life is knowing that someday Death will come for me and I'll go home to be with Jesus. But I'm not dead yet, so the second best thing I can do is work with what I have right in front of me. While I'm still alive, I still have choices to make. My dissatisfaction with this world is what drives me to try to make it a little bit better.

I've BEEN fat and disgusting. I'm not fat anymore, but I'm still disgusting and I'm BALD on top of all that. Still got a girlfriend back in the day. Still had what few friends would tolerate me. Still eventually got married. Still made babies. My kids love me. My wife, who has known me for 15 years now, still loves me. I may not have a lot of real friends, but I have tons of people who are at least nice to me. The stars didn't align any more for me than they do anyone else.

There's no guarantee that it's going to work out for EVERYONE. But you only hurt your chances with these negative attitudes. Fix that and you fix most of the problem.

But if you DO fix that, you're still left with the problem of whether having someone love you, having a family, having friends is actually going to make you happy. NONE OF THAT will make you happy. I still fight depression and anxiety. I still have trouble meeting new people and making lasting contacts. And even if I somehow could overcome all that, it still wouldn't make me happy. The only way to be happy is to just be a happy person. I think misery is contagious, and a lot of people instinctively are aware of that and avoid chronically miserable people.

I could keep going, but I've gone long enough as it is. The plain fact is NTs aren't that preoccupied with us. There's no conspiracy. Keep a positive attitude towards others, treat them as though they are important, give them what they want (or at least do your best), and you pretty much have the keys to the world.

This is so true. No one is going to spend time with a miserable person. Why would they?

Is there any way to delete this thread? It's just pissing me off at this point.

Please don't be upset. You seem like an okay guy. I could understand your irritation. I experienced it myself.

There's more to life than just relationships.

I rather wish I lived in Portland, because of its reputation for relative toleration.

I get that I do need to work on things. But my whole life, it's been drilled into me that if you need help, you should ask for it. But the more I try to get help, the more everyone backs away. How am I supposed to work with that? How am I ever supposed to get better if there's no help? Therapy does nothing but make me dwell on all the negatives I usual don't think about, medications just screw me up in all kinds of ways, I have virtually no family to turn to. I'm pretty friendly with people, and with the lone exception of my supervisor none of my coworkers even know I'm on the spectrum. I just want SOMEONE to even give me a chance. You guys are saying show compassion, treat others well, make them feel special, and I try, but there's nobody who will even give me the opportunity to fully show that side. And it's not like I'm this bad at work; I'm able to put on a happy face, and you guys are pretty much the only ones I show my pain to. That's what kills me. I'm doing the best I can, and it isn't enough for anybody. It's not like I've gotten a ton of bad dates, it's that I can't even get started, and at this point I'm so far behind I don't see how I could ever hope to catch up. I'm in my 20's, I don't even know how to kiss. I can't deal with this world alone, and having to wait until my 30's/40's to have some sort of peace is my absolute worst nightmare. I just don't know what to do anymore. The extremely rare isolated incidents where I actually have had a hug or held a hand are the only times I actually feel any sense of connection. I understand I'm probably not ready for a relationship at this point, but the ability to feel shouldn't be some special privilege. If you can't understand this, please just keep your cold-hearted judgmental "advice" to yourself.

@danothan: If you want to disagree with everything I have to say, fine. kraftie is making a good point here, part of which is we've all been where you are. Coming to the conclusions we've all made has often been arduous and painful. Every single relationship I've been in has failed, except my current one, and even this one is my third try with the same woman (long story, but our story has made us TIGHT). kraftiekortie, myself, and others have an outside-in perspective, whereas you're inside-looking-out. You don't have that retrospect that we have that makes it easy for us to say what we say. If you shift your attitude towards life, give relationships the proper priority in life, and ultimately find the success you're looking for, then you'll have the same experiences we have and be telling someone else the same story?and then that person will tell you that you don't know what you're talking about and how they'd rather just go on feeling sorry for himself?and it will take HIM at least as many years as it took you to figure out what we already know.

I acknowledged that karftykorrie had a point. Please stop talking down to me, I don't know how many other ways I have to say it.

I'm 44 and I still don't know how to kiss. Frankly I think it's over-rated. You may be experiencing the realization that life is not what you thought it would be. I remember going through this and I felt like I'd been ripped off. I got through childhood by buying into the belief that I will get the things valued in school - family, children, job, etc. But that's just myths to keep kids in line.