Expressive/Pragmatic Language Screening

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Heatherly30
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29 Sep 2010, 11:35 am

My son's first grade teacher requested a screening by the school Speech Pathologist. The results showed a possible disability in the areas of expressive and pragmatic language. Upon researching these, I find that you can't read an article about these without the mention of Aspergers. We met with the teachers this past Monday to discuss. Their concerns:
-After reading a story in reading group, his teacher asks what the story was about. He starts rambling about the rock monsters (Lego toys) coming up from under ground...obviously, not answering what the teacher asked.
-She doesn't feel that he has made any social connections in the classroom. He is very quiet and even referred to him as a wallflower (not condescending though).
-The speech therapist had shown him a picture of children in line for the water fountain. He was supposed to tell what was happening in the picture. He made up an elaborate story about no one getting a drink of water, nor a drink of anything. He rambled on and on for several minutes.
Those are a few examples from the meeting. He is very smart, reading on grade level, and math above grade level. He has talked as long as we can remember, and a lot. Therefore, my son and wallflower in the same sentence seems foreign.
Upon reading more about AS, I grow concerned over the obsession aspect. As a toddler, he LOVED Thomas the Train. He lived and breathed to go to the store and buy a new engine. He knew all of their names...all of them. His new love is Legos. More specifically, Lego minifigures. I wouldn't say he is an expert on these, but, again, if his life could revolve around getting new minifigures, it would. I have also been trying to closely observe his interactions with others since learning about all of this. While on the phone with his cousin this past week, he talked non-stop, for at least 20 minutes about the cartoon show Chowder. Talked about it, recited it, acted it out, etc. His cousin on the other end didn't seem to mind it, he was apparently laughing and enjoying the conversation. Other thoughts...he is 6 (almost 7) and still wears a pull-up to bed (hubby was also a bed-wetter). Doesn't bother me too much, but it doesn't bother him either. He's perfectly fine with it. If he stays the night with a cousin, he is not embarrassed by it. He's a great, funny, entertaining kid!
Not asking for an online diagnosis, but hoping you'll comment if anything sounds familiar...



DW_a_mom
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29 Sep 2010, 12:21 pm

Yes, it sounds familiar. The idea that my child with a wonderful vocabularly and perfect diction could actually qualify for speech therapy floored me when I first heard it. But, well, he did, and that may have been one of the most useful therapies he's had. I first heard the concept of pragmatic speech around the same time I first heard he might be AS. It wasn't all sorted out until months later, but I do remember those early conversations at the school. And there I was thinking all my child had was a writing problem, which I confess I was desperately grasping to find help for (it is a co-morbid).

I love the rambling and going off-topic and tangential way of thinking ... but my son did have to learn that there was a time and a place for it, and a system for interactive conversation at school, conducting business, etc. Learning pragmatic speech skills doesn't have to squash the fun chatter, but it will give them tools to know when to reign it in.

If your child is AS, don't worry about the obsessive interests. Many AS turn those interests into careers; when they can do that, it is one of the best ways to make a successful life. It will, again, be about channeling and directing, not squashing.

I was stunned when someone first suggested AS to us, for I had the rainman image locked in my head for spectrum conditions. Well, the spectrum is much broader than that, and my son most definitely is on it. He's doing really well, though. I've got a happy kid that delights most adults (his peers - well, that is more complicated ;) ).


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OddFiction
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29 Sep 2010, 1:58 pm

Heatherly30 wrote:
- not answering what the teacher asked.
- any social connections in the classroom. wallflower
- He made up an elaborate story about no one getting a drink. He rambled on.
- He is very smart, reading on grade level, and math above grade level.
- He has talked as long as we can remember, and a lot.
- He lived and breathed to go to the store and buy a new [toy related to interest]
- He talked non-stop, for at least 20 minutes, recited, acted it, etc.
Not asking for an online diagnosis, but hoping you'll comment if anything sounds familiar...


Welcome "home" Heatherly. Sounds to me like you just might belong here. Glad you found us & please keep visiting. And always feel free to ask as many questions as you may have. Of course, be warned that sometimes the answers can be blunt and direct, but that's just how things can sound around here, not always how they're meant... We all want the best for our fellow Aspies/Auties and hope you'll avail yourself of the site and everything there is to be gained here. Whatever the formal diagnosis you get.

ps - Obsessive interests are not something to be concerned with. In a way they're like our security blankets, hugs, or the pet cat or teddybear that most NT (neurotypical - "regular") kids go to, go to talk to, when they're having a tough time. In other ways they're our way of develloping self confidence and a sense of completion that we don't get from general social interactions. In other ways... I could go on, and I'd probably miss most of the positives and purposes of obsessions.... Suffice to say they provide stability in an unstable world.


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By simply doing what they are designed to do something large and magnificient happens. In this sense they show us how to live; The only barometer you have is your heart. When you spot your flower, you can't let anything get in your way. - John Laroche


angelbear
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29 Sep 2010, 2:07 pm

Your son sounds like a very bright and unique little boy. It sounds like he is doing pretty well if he has gotten this far before the subject of AS was brought up. At least he is not being disruptive in class. I wouldn't worry too much about the obsessions or "special interests" ----this is what we call them in the world of AS.
As far as wearing a pull up at night, my niece was almost 8 before she stopped wearing one, and she does not have any sort of disability. I think I read that doctors don't get concerned until they are about 9.

Your son will be allright even if he has AS. He will probably do well academically, but will need help on his social skills. I think his speech will come together with speech therapy. I would definitely work with the school as much as possible to get him the help that he will need.

Best of luck to you and Welcome to Wrong Planet!



Heatherly30
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29 Sep 2010, 2:18 pm

Thanks for the replies! I guess I was caught off guard, and I'm still shocked and finding it hard to believe that he acts the way his teacher states (quiet). Guess I need to get in there and observe him myself.
He's never seemed to have problems making friends in the past, and kids have always liked him...but then, we just moved to a new house and he has yet to meet the kids in the neighborhood. BUT, there are only two close to his age (others are teenagers) and they're both girls. Sorry, just random thoughts...
Not worried about the "special interests", but the can get annoying! Sometimes it's all I hear about for hours on end, with begging, pleading, crying, etc.
The pull up issue doesn't bother me, but I wonder why he isn't embarrassed by it. His cousins sorta politely laugh at him, and he doesn't seem to even understand that it isn't "normal" for kids his age to wear them. Same thing with riding his bike with training wheels...not the fact that he has training wheels, but that he doesn't get that kids his age don't normally still have them. I dunno, am I off base in thinking that this is related?
How about writing things that make no sense...is that considered classic AS? For example, he came home with a book he had written titled "My Pumpkin Book." This is what he had written on one of the pages (I am correcting spelling):
'Sometimes people can feel left out but if it was a thunderstorm maybe you might save the day.'
Now, I have a question into the teacher asking what they were supposed to write about. I doubt it will clarify, but who knows...



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29 Sep 2010, 2:24 pm

Heatherly30 wrote:
Thanks for the replies! I guess I was caught off guard, and I'm still shocked and finding it hard to believe that he acts the way his teacher states (quiet). Guess I need to get in there and observe him myself.
He's never seemed to have problems making friends in the past, and kids have always liked him...but then, we just moved to a new house and he has yet to meet the kids in the neighborhood. BUT, there are only two close to his age (others are teenagers) and they're both girls. Sorry, just random thoughts...
Not worried about the "special interests", but the can get annoying! Sometimes it's all I hear about for hours on end, with begging, pleading, crying, etc.
The pull up issue doesn't bother me, but I wonder why he isn't embarrassed by it. His cousins sorta politely laugh at him, and he doesn't seem to even understand that it isn't "normal" for kids his age to wear them. Same thing with riding his bike with training wheels...not the fact that he has training wheels, but that he doesn't get that kids his age don't normally still have them. I dunno, am I off base in thinking that this is related?
How about writing things that make no sense...is that considered classic AS? For example, he came home with a book he had written titled "My Pumpkin Book." This is what he had written on one of the pages (I am correcting spelling):
'Sometimes people can feel left out but if it was a thunderstorm maybe you might save the day.'
Now, I have a question into the teacher asking what they were supposed to write about. I doubt it will clarify, but who knows...

You should be thankful your child is unaware that these things aren't normal. It'll be painful when he does realize it.

Your son's sentence makes sense to me but it's missing context. A thunderstorm can represent any bad situation, or maybe just a specific situation. Maybe he feels left out but he knows with some knowledge or ability he possess in that situation he'd "save the day."

When he's older you can put restrictions on sharing interests with people. I know some people here have timers for their children. Once the time is up, they stop talking about it with you.

Social difficulties don't always present themselves when they are that young. Your son might have considerable difficulty when he is older as social demands increase and he is still at this same level. I know this was very true for me.

But if he has Asperger's, that's just who he is. The most you can be is supportive.



DW_a_mom
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29 Sep 2010, 3:11 pm

Heatherly30 wrote:
Thanks for the replies! I guess I was caught off guard, and I'm still shocked and finding it hard to believe that he acts the way his teacher states (quiet). Guess I need to get in there and observe him myself.
He's never seemed to have problems making friends in the past, and kids have always liked him...but then, we just moved to a new house and he has yet to meet the kids in the neighborhood. BUT, there are only two close to his age (others are teenagers) and they're both girls. Sorry, just random thoughts...
Not worried about the "special interests", but the can get annoying! Sometimes it's all I hear about for hours on end, with begging, pleading, crying, etc.
The pull up issue doesn't bother me, but I wonder why he isn't embarrassed by it. His cousins sorta politely laugh at him, and he doesn't seem to even understand that it isn't "normal" for kids his age to wear them. Same thing with riding his bike with training wheels...not the fact that he has training wheels, but that he doesn't get that kids his age don't normally still have them. I dunno, am I off base in thinking that this is related?
How about writing things that make no sense...is that considered classic AS? For example, he came home with a book he had written titled "My Pumpkin Book." This is what he had written on one of the pages (I am correcting spelling):
'Sometimes people can feel left out but if it was a thunderstorm maybe you might save the day.'
Now, I have a question into the teacher asking what they were supposed to write about. I doubt it will clarify, but who knows...


My son was never quiet to us, but he did get confused in large groups of kids. Maybe it was the sensory overload? Or not being entirely sure his audience for a monologue is?

The not being embarassed by things other kids might be is very much like my son. He gets upset if he's teased, but outside of that verbalization he really doesn't care what they think, or actually give any thought to what they think. He has no sense of measuring himself against the other kids, and even now that he knows other people do that, he doesn't understand the purpose of it. There is nothing in him that has any desire to be like anyone else or do what others do. If kids are doing something that looks like fun, he'll copy. If it doesn't appeal to him, he won't. It is, ultimately, a wonderful trait, and one that might stand the test of time if you can keep too many outside influences from hacking at it. My son doesn't have anxiety or depression co-morbids, and has been pretty well insulated from teasing (he is now 13), so while he is very much aware at this age that he is different, he honestly and truly does not care, and has no desire to be anyone but who he is (he has known about the AS ever since we got the diagnosis).

The last one, about sentences that don't connect ... my mostly NT (nuerotypical, or normal) daughter did that, too, so I don't think of that one as indicating AS.

One thing to remember as you start down this journey is that quite a few different genes are involved in creating AS, so it is possible for a person to have some AS traits, but not have enough to diagnosed. I think of myself and my daughter as being that way; we each have a few AS traits, but not enough of them to be diagnosed. It is all a spectrum, after all. What you'll want most is to understand your son, and what makes him tick. Sometimes that may require figuring out how someone with AS thinks; sometimes it will take an entirely different perspective.

My son was diagnosed at 7, btw, and I think it would have been very difficult to get the diagnosis earlier. While we can look backwards with 20/20 hindsight and see all the clues, they really were not conclusive at younger ages; they could have meant so many things. It was pulling it all together when he got into school that it become more apparent.


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Heatherly30
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29 Sep 2010, 3:33 pm

Just received a reply from his teacher regarding the pumpkin writing prompt. She had just read a book about a pumpkin that was different, and they were to write in response to that story. So...I can see where he was coming from now!

I am glad that he doesn't see the pull up/training wheel issues as problems! I've just never understood it. DW a Mom-Your son sounds like a great kid! Seems like a wise soul! Hope my guy can adopt those same perspectives!

You all must be right about the social piece not being apparent until later. I guess his life has never had to revolve around anything but toys. Kids his age have also had nothing to care about but toys. Now that he has been given other tasks to do and talk about in school, they say he is a little lost...

Other observations to run by you all...as a former elementary teacher, I know that when parents ask "what did you learn in school today?" most kids reply, "I don't know, I don't remember." He always has and answer...today it was, "comparing different amounts of money," a different day it was, "Parts of the body structure." This is great! Glad he knows! But might this be part of the memorization I have read about?

Again, just remember that this is all new to me. I don't even know if he has AS, but as someone mentioned, he has some characteristics with or without a diagnosis. I love him unconditionally, and I will support him in every way possible! I'm just wrapping my brain around my child not being the way I thought he was all along.



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29 Sep 2010, 3:53 pm

Quote:
Other observations to run by you all...as a former elementary teacher, I know that when parents ask "what did you learn in school today?" most kids reply, "I don't know, I don't remember." He always has and answer...today it was, "comparing different amounts of money," a different day it was, "Parts of the body structure." This is great! Glad he knows! But might this be part of the memorization I have read about?

If I was asked how was school I wouldn't respond. If were asked what I learned in school that day I would know the answer but rarely responded, because I was aggravated and overloaded from the day.

I would be disturbed if children didn't remember what they learned at school. I would assume a child saying that just doesn't want to talk about it. Your child is being honest.



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29 Sep 2010, 4:49 pm

From how you describe your son, he may or may not have AS. My son is 5 now, and at 2.5 he was diagnosed as PDD-NOS/possible Asperger's. My son has NEVER played with other kids. Although he is very social with adults, he has never joined in with other children's play. He has never really played very well by himself either. He has never cared too much about toys either. Did your son ever do anything like bang his head or rock or spin or flap his hands?

Also, how are your son's motor skills? Has he ever had trouble with doing crafts or with writing? My son was very delayed on all of his physical milestones. How did his speech develop? Has he ever had repetitive language?

I guess if the school is evaluating his speech, they may recommend further testing, but maybe he just has some autistic tendencies without having full blown AS.

I am glad that you came to WP, and I hope everything goes well for you and your son!



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29 Sep 2010, 6:01 pm

Just curious about the way you've talked to him about the training wheels.
With AS, the way you word something really matters.

DW_a_mom wrote:
The not being embarassed by things other kids might be is very much like my son. He gets upset if he's teased, but outside of that verbalization he really doesn't care what they think, or actually give any thought to what they think.


"None of the other kids uses training wheels anymore" isn't actually saying anything productive to someone who doesn't care about other peoples' standards. It's a null thought. There is no answer, perusal, interest, value or result to this statement, because there is no problem being proposed. So it will be discarded by the AS brain. It is the most common and rational way to put forth the idea of removing the wheels - to any other kid.

"Have you ever considered trying to ride your bike without training wheels?" provides a consideration, plants an idea. The answer will most likely be a "why?" or a "no." and can be followed by a carefully worded line like "The bike will require less maintenance" and/or "removing the wheels is the generally accepted progression when learning to ride a bike." They may not decide to have them removed that day, but in a week or 2 years, out of the blue, that conversation will continue and he'll say he's ready to remove them.

Same thing with night diapers. But many kids (or so I hear) take a while for their bodies to learn not to pee at night... so I stuck to the training wheels example. Of course, ASD kids sometimes have balance issues, so consider this too.
--------
DW_a_mom wrote:
He has no sense of measuring himself against the other kids, and even now that he knows other people do that, he doesn't understand the purpose of it. There is nothing in him that has any desire to be like anyone else or do what others do. If kids are doing something that looks like fun, he'll copy. If it doesn't appeal to him, he won't. It is, ultimately, a wonderful trait.

:) :) :) Why thank you DW. I never thought of it as "wonderful" before!
:) :) :) I feel all warm and fuzzy inside now! :) :) :)