Can social skills really be "taught"?

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dilladop
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14 Dec 2010, 10:15 pm

I am stepmother of 1 year to a 12yo boy who is undergoing testing for what I'm relatively sure is Aspergers. We moved in August to a state far away from where he had lived for the previous 7 years. He felt like he had lots of "friends" there. His definition of friend is not what I consider a friend, however. He knew their names and had gone to school with them for years, but they seemed opportunistic and parasitic to me. They only seemed to want to play his many video games or use his stuff. Some of them even stole things from the house during the year he and his dad were without a female in the house.
Now he is in counseling and the counselor, who is very kind and wants to be helpful, is trying to help our son with socialization by making up very simple and straightforward scenarios for him to practice at church and school. He does not want to approach any of the other boys with these made up ideas. Today he even cried during the session. (Crying is his way of meltdown.)
He makes good grades, is liked by his teachers, played football this fall, plays trombone in the band and is in a play. He goes to a small, Christian school and everyone there is kind to him.
I don't know what to do. Should we keep pushing him? Will it really eventually work? I am beginning to think maybe it would be better just let him "be" who he is. But will he hate us later for not pushing him to socialize?



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14 Dec 2010, 10:54 pm

Social skills can be taught.

But don't force him. Make it clear that you're there for him, that you'd love it if he wants to try, that you'll do everything you can to make it easier for him if he does, and then leave it at that.

If he makes overtures, I guess you can praise him, with the caveat that you should be careful that the way you do so doesn't freak him out. He might not show it if it does, so you might not know. And he might be the sort to keep things close to his chest for any number of reasons, including being unable to communicate the truth (even if he seems like he's very articulate).

He definitely won't hate you for not pushing him. He'll probably thank you in about ten or fifteen years when he starts to consider his parents' subjectivity. :P

Sounds like what the counselor's doing is a bad idea.

There are other options open for trying to make friends, but unless he's lonely, I suggest not bothering.

Also, there's something to be said for opportunistic and parasitic "friends."


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14 Dec 2010, 11:00 pm

It really depends on who you ask. Some people say anything can be learned. But how do you learn social skills? Social skills aren't really a skill. There are basic common courtesies and manners that people can learn, but "social skills" are probably just outgoing positive personalities. Can anyone learn/be taught "personality"?

I would say push him and give him positive encouragement to socialize. Do whatever you can, but try not to overdo it or force it upon him. Teach him to be positive and optimistic, and accepting of others, but to stand up for himself.

My parents it seemed just let me be me, but that didn't turn out so well....from my perspective since I am me...and I am living the life now that I wish never was. It feels like if only I would have tried harder if only this and only that. All I can remember was growing up there was this "negative force" around me, and it might have been a sensory thing, but it really prevented me from interacting....I still can't explain it but I knew on so many ways I was different from everybody else, and not in the way that "everybody is different". It was something on a different level



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14 Dec 2010, 11:28 pm

I would not push too hard on the socialization. You need to exspose him to people and situations and let him gauge how much he wants to be involved, but in the end, if he is a solitary person, thats who he will be.
Every week I take my son to a gym to play with other kids in our homeschool group. Out of the two hour session my son maybe interacts with other kids for 15 minutes ( on rare occasions 30 minutes). He honestly could take it or leave it, but every week I take him. He learns a little bit about interacting with people in those few minutes.
Sounds like your son gets plenty of socialization. With football, band, and school.
If your son has a special interest, find people who share that interest and he may form friendships "naturaly".

PS. My parents made me join baseball because they thought I needed to be more social. WORST SUMMER OF MY LIFE!! !! !! !! !!



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14 Dec 2010, 11:35 pm

You can teach things like proper manners. I.E. Hello, nice to meet you, hows it going, etc. But as another poster said, you can't teach somebody a personality. You can't teach a child to be outgoing, personable, and extroverted if that isn't who he is. And for that mater, you shouldn't teach it anyways. Being quiet and non social is just as valid of a personality as being outgoing. And trying to teach him to be outgoing when he isn't only gives the false impression that being introverted is a bad thing. So, all that to say: You can teach a child to be more understanding, more patient, and more polite when dealing with others, but you can't change who they are. So, whether or not you can teach 'social skills' depends entirely on what is meant by the phrase 'social skills'.

If your son wants to make friends with other people, then thats fine. But he doesn't have to do it in the culturally expected outgoing and popular method. He can always make friends with a small group of people over a shared topic of interest. And that usually works better then trying to be the outgoing person who is 'everybody's' friend, and wind up with shallow parasites for friends.


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14 Dec 2010, 11:47 pm

dilladop wrote:
I am stepmother of 1 year to a 12yo boy who is undergoing testing for what I'm relatively sure is Aspergers. We moved in August to a state far away from where he had lived for the previous 7 years. He felt like he had lots of "friends" there. His definition of friend is not what I consider a friend, however. He knew their names and had gone to school with them for years, but they seemed opportunistic and parasitic to me. They only seemed to want to play his many video games or use his stuff. Some of them even stole things from the house during the year he and his dad were without a female in the house.
Now he is in counseling and the counselor, who is very kind and wants to be helpful, is trying to help our son with socialization by making up very simple and straightforward scenarios for him to practice at church and school. He does not want to approach any of the other boys with these made up ideas. Today he even cried during the session. (Crying is his way of meltdown.)
He makes good grades, is liked by his teachers, played football this fall, plays trombone in the band and is in a play. He goes to a small, Christian school and everyone there is kind to him.
I don't know what to do. Should we keep pushing him? Will it really eventually work? I am beginning to think maybe it would be better just let him "be" who he is. But will he hate us later for not pushing him to socialize?


Yes, to an extent, they can be taught. But the social dynamics between children, and between adults is very different, and most adults, even those who work with and counsel children, fail to recognize this and often offer advice that is not applicable to children and will set the child up for bullying or more social exclusion. He should be in a social skills program specifically for children. It should also be recognized that the things that be taught comprise the easy part of socialization. What happens after the formalities? That is treacherous area for someone, especially a child with AS. These are probably the reasons he was brought to tears.

If you like I can find some social skills programs for children with AS for you.



Arman_Khodaei
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14 Dec 2010, 11:56 pm

Yes, social skills can taught. I learned them, but I had the desire to learn. I think good resources are books that explain social skills in a positive light such as books that teach how to make good impressions and keep friends. Those books while written for the NT public, make a lot of great points. I also took an Interpersonal Communication Course, and that really helped me. I also run a young adult autism group, and we work on developing social skills. I will admit this sort of thing takes time, but with perseverance one can get better at socializing. The trick is that we can't just have someone say "do this." We also need to know why things work the way they do. We need to know what is and isn't appropriate. That's why I recommend books. But, practicing scenarios is also a good idea. I have written some blogs entries that go into some detail into this. I am not sure what the forum posting rules are for linking to my own website beyond listing it in my signature, so I won't post any exact links here. But, in my signature is a link to my website. Some of my blog entries might prove helpful to you. I wish you the best of luck.



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15 Dec 2010, 12:15 am

As Tracker said, proper manners can be taught. However, I question whether it's worthwhile to go much further than that.

I did eventually learn adequate neurotypical social skills over several decades. However, aspies' way of learning social skills seems to be different from that of neurotypicals. Neurotypical social behaviors are never intuitive to us; rather, we have to think through the issues consciously, and understand the motivations behind various social behaviors, even when neurotypicals aren't consciously aware of and don't acknowledge those motivations. And it's also nice to have places like this forum where we can drop that stuff and just be ourselves.

I'd note that the social skills used in school are virtually useless in the adult world, so there's not much point in an aspie learning them. What can be useful is teaching your children how to interact with people in ways that they will encounter in adulthood. For example, it's useful to be able to buy something in a store without being too scared to walk up to the cashier, and a supportive family member can definitely help a family member learn that.



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15 Dec 2010, 1:13 am

psychohist wrote:
As Tracker said, proper manners can be taught. However, I question whether it's worthwhile to go much further than that.

I did eventually learn adequate neurotypical social skills over several decades. However, aspies' way of learning social skills seems to be different from that of neurotypicals. Neurotypical social behaviors are never intuitive to us; rather, we have to think through the issues consciously, and understand the motivations behind various social behaviors, even when neurotypicals aren't consciously aware of and don't acknowledge those motivations. And it's also nice to have places like this forum where we can drop that stuff and just be ourselves.


Well said. I've learned to come across as fairly socially adept, however I came by it almost entirely analytically and it can be a lot of work.



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15 Dec 2010, 1:15 pm

I think the issue for my 11 year old son is; is he lonely? If so, then yeah, it's important to figure out a solution. If not, focus on public manners, and let the rest go.

My son wants friends, and he wants friends who are engaged in his special interests. What's difficult for him is that he doesn't realize that most kids aren't interested in his couple of interests to the degree he is and will become bored after a while. He is not interested in taking turns doing what the other person wants for more than five minutes. He becomes upset when they want to go home if they are doing different stuff. For instance, if DS is focused on Little Big Planet (LBP) and friend wants to go jump on trampoline, DS may jump for a minute and then expect to return to LBP. When friend doesn't want to return to LBP, DS would be ok to return to LBP solo and have the friend do something else. Unfortunately, friends will usually opt to leave.

So, in our case, social "skills" don't actually change anything, it has to do with friend's preferences. I just wish that we could find more apie type kids who had similar interests. Fortunately, DS's interests are usually somewhat apealing to other kids, at least for a while.



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15 Dec 2010, 1:35 pm

In watching my son work with social skills therapists and teachers, I believe that social skills can be taught and learned, but they are still very hard. My son get taught in school as well as with a therapist and he does learn a lot, however he wants more than anything to have friends, he asks me in some situations to be there because he needs to know what to do, and he is VERY self aware...he just turned 9.

What I do notice though is that one day he's great, and other days it's like he didn't learn anything. My impression of him is that some days he remembers better and he has better coping skills, and some days he forgets, or he just doesn't want to do the work to cope...which I find very understandable.

I think they can be learned, and you should not give up on them because I personally feel they are important for many reasons, but I think you have to adjust your expectations based on your child. I think every child is different. I have seen some posts on here where people have had help as children and they didn't feel they got anything out of it, and there are some who have gotten a lot out of it and function well. It just depends on the individual.

There are days where I envy those with kids that are totally happy with themselves. My son would be much happier in the social world if he didn't need people so badly. Sometimes I feel so bad for him because he tries so hard.....but we keep plugging away.



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15 Dec 2010, 1:37 pm

dilladop wrote:
... the counselor ... is trying to help our son with socialization by making up very simple and straightforward scenarios for him to practice at church and school. He does not want to approach any of the other boys with these made up ideas. Today he even cried during the session. (Crying is his way of meltdown.)

Is that counselor actually capable of thinking like twelve-year-olds? Like "Daniel" in "Karate Kid", your son now finds himself in a new place with new rules and nobody seems to really understand ... and ideas from a paid-to-talk stranger in this new setting are not very likely to bring him much comfort or encouragement.

Ask your son to share his questions and struggles with either you or his dad, and then try to put yourselves in his place and offer him the kind of insight or encouragement you would have wanted in his situation at his age ... and that would likely not include having to go see some fourth-party "counselor" none of the other children have to go see.


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Last edited by leejosepho on 15 Dec 2010, 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dilladop
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15 Dec 2010, 1:43 pm

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.
His areas of interest include astronomy, computers, making videos and just science in general. I will try to find a group for one of those for him. He also gets along much better with people older than him than kids his own age.
I have been teaching him manners and things like learning to wash his own clothes, manage money and keep his bedroom and bathroom clean. He has a list of things he can choose to do for money an he is usually motivated to do all or most of them each week. One of those is cooking supper. He really likes that and perseveres even though it isn't always easy for him.
Even though it is difficult for him to identify and say his feelings, I think he does want friends. Yesterday in counseling he said he misses his old school and by that I know he means his friends.
I'm going to try and find some books or something on the web about social skills and see if I can use that to help him.
You've all been very helpful to me (and my stepson) with all your suggestions as I continue on this journey of learning about Aspergers. My hope is that we can raise him to be a happy, fulfilled adult in whatever way he chooses that to be.



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15 Dec 2010, 5:30 pm

Hi Dilladop-

I think your stepson sounds like he is doing great, personally. He is doing quite a bit and making good grades. The teen years can be tough for anyone, especially if he just moved to a new area. I think if the counselor is stressing him out that much, then maybe it is time to try a different approach. Or maybe he could just listen to the counselor's ideas and then make his own decisions about it or when to use these phrases, or maybe he could make them into something that would sound more natural for himself. I agree too that if he just pursues things that he enjoys, he is most likely to meet others that have things in common.

I think you are doing a great job at helping him learn independence. Keep up the good work, and I hope things start to look up for him.



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15 Dec 2010, 11:47 pm

Kailuamom wrote:
I think the issue for my 11 year old son is; is he lonely? If so, then yeah, it's important to figure out a solution. If not, focus on public manners, and let the rest go.

My son wants friends, and he wants friends who are engaged in his special interests. What's difficult for him is that he doesn't realize that most kids aren't interested in his couple of interests to the degree he is and will become bored after a while. He is not interested in taking turns doing what the other person wants for more than five minutes. He becomes upset when they want to go home if they are doing different stuff. For instance, if DS is focused on Little Big Planet (LBP) and friend wants to go jump on trampoline, DS may jump for a minute and then expect to return to LBP. When friend doesn't want to return to LBP, DS would be ok to return to LBP solo and have the friend do something else. Unfortunately, friends will usually opt to leave.

So, in our case, social "skills" don't actually change anything, it has to do with friend's preferences. I just wish that we could find more apie type kids who had similar interests. Fortunately, DS's interests are usually somewhat apealing to other kids, at least for a while.


To be honest, if I were to be transported back through time to being a child, I'd still haven't the slightest idea how to socialize with them. I think the social skills training will be more of a help for when he's an adult.



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16 Dec 2010, 1:51 am

I often cried when I was emotionally overwhelmed at that age as well. Usually it was centered around conflicts, like why I made a bad grade or why I didn't finish an assignment, or why I didn't join extracurricular activities, etc. I still break down like that when I'm faced with an overwhelming situation. The activities he's involved in make me wonder why you want him to be more sociable. If I were in plays, sports, and band, my mother would have been bouncing off the walls with joy.

Skills can certainly be learned. You'll find many people on this board are able to function very well socially. Speaking for myself, I function more than adequately, especially when I'm around people I know, and the smaller the group, the better I do. How I learned is somewhat more complicated. For me, it was a lot of observation, trial and error. For example, I used to watch television comedians, and imitate their tone of voice, inflection, volume when I was trying to be funny. I also imitated the mannerisms of the few real friends I had. To be brutally honest, it was a matter of monitoring my behavior and seeing what different behaviors I generated in others when I altered things. School was easy for me so I spent most of my intellectual effort on this stuff. If he's acting in plays, and teachers are thinking he's good at it, he may already be doing this.

I've become something of a social chameleon since I've gotten older. I can get along with almost anyone, from traditional rural American country folk to the more sophisticated intellectual types. I can argue both sides of most political, social, and economic issues and thus appear to be "one of them". I know the usual likes and dislikes of various groups and what not to say to what people, what shows to reference, etc. I can do all this because I spent a lot of my teenage years just watching other people interact. The trade off, of course, is that all this self-monitoring and hyper-vigilance is taxing, so I get tired after a lot of socializing. Further, a large group that's very diverse and people I don't know well make this much more difficult. I also have a very limited ability to adapt to things I didn't prepare for. For example, if I arranged a study session with a girl, and she started to try to flirt, I'd either be totally oblivious, or if I did realize what was going on, it would be nearly impossible for me to transition to this other kind of interaction in anything like a graceful manner. Those are the sorts of limitations anything you teach will probably have. You can teach a blind man to get around by memorizing routes and terrains, but it isn't the same as being able to see.

If he's like me, he'll never get childhood and teenage socializing, because it's based too much on things he won't understand, like herd mentality and doing things to fit into the group. Aspies just don't have these instincts. This is both good and bad. The good is that it will be easier to keep him away from bad influences like drugs, alcohol, gangs, etc. The bad is that he won't fit in, he may be bullied, and he will miss a lot of adolescent social growth milestones. My parents didn't know about AS, but if I could ask them to do one thing differently, it would be this. Don't push me to do things that I'm not comfortable with. If he doesn't want to join activities, sports, etc., don't press the issue. He'll probably fight the way I fought my parents. He'll get nothing but frustration from it and some of that will be directed at you. Instead, focus that energy on explaining the way the adult world works and how to succeed in it. Try to get him to think in the long-term, to the future, and take some concrete steps to prepare for that. Things like making eye contact in a job interview, social networking, the importance of teamwork in the business world, etc. I would much rather have had mom pester me about that than why I didn't want to join the debate team or go to high school football games. If this seems a bit premature for a 12 year old, it isn't. He'll have to learn enough to function in a world of mostly sociable extroverted people that won't understand him and won't want to.

Above all else, don't push him to form relationships with people his age if he doesn't want to. This will fail, I give my personal guarantee on that. When I was that age, I was mostly interested in talking to adults, and that got more pronounced in high school. I can't remember the names of 5 people from my senior class, but I can name almost every teacher I had from grade school on up, because those are the people I actually interacted with on a personal level. I just didn't do the kid stuff at all. The adults were way more interesting. For example, if he likes football, you might see if the coach could explain some football plays in depth or something and see if he's interested enough to be a coach. You said he's in a play. The same skills that he's using there will be the ones he uses to compensate for lack of social instincts. Get him thinking about the adult world as much as you can. The adolescent world, unfortunately, is not likely to be a pleasant one for any kid with AS. Try to get him to see that there's a bigger world out there after that.