Does anyone have an opinion about too much routine???

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I am struggling to decide which way to go with my three year old boy.

He has been going to a nursery, part time, and they have gone to great lengths to put him and the other autistic lad there on picture timetables - the other kids don.t have them. I was initially ok about this, as i thought routine would be a good thing (our home life is a bit chaotic and prone to change) and he appeared to be doing well....until he broke up for three weeks at christmas. He was really grouchy. He was actually really violent, breaking toys, throwing objects, yanking my hair. It was like he could not cope with the change in routine!

So now i am thinking maybe it was too much. I do not want him to go through life with a strict timetable to rely on, and then to fall apart when something different happens! Now he is back at nursery and his behaviour is no better, they want me to do all this kind of stuff at home with him. I just got it into my head that it's not for his benefit - just to make life easier for those around him. I also notice that he answers some questions with an automatic answer - like 'how are you today Lewis?' and his answer 'fine thank you how are you?' some people think its cute to hear such an adult reply but i just know he doesnt really mean what he is saying. Lots of little things like that have really made me think lately - whose benefit is this for?.

Therefore it made sense to me to ask the people who have been through it - either as a toddler themselves, or as parents of autistic toddlers so please i would really appreciate any insight, or experience you might have with routines and timetables.

Thanks for reading this.

Routine really helped me as a kid. Having said that, the best thing you can do is just be yourself, and let him be yourself. I know it's easier said than done (not as a parent, but as a kid, looking back on it, and how much of a pain I could be at times) but that's the best thing for anyone, kid or adult, to just be themselves.

there is this assumption that autistic children are mostly visual and follow strict routines but this does not need to be true. frankly I am not sure if this is due to bad diagnosis or true variability within AS. People always put picture schedules for my son but the truth is that he is quite ok with verbal orders and definitely does not have a problem with the changed schedule (this kid traveled a lot and never fussed). We were also very compliant when our son had services and let the professionals try their thing for 2+ years while sensing that it is pointless. Yes, they always tell you be patient but actually the suitable therapy can be recognized immediately.

best-

Routines, especially picture charts, are supposed to help autistic children.

But really, I avoid routines. I have them and if they are broken I lose it. My life would be Hell if I had strict time table routines for everything because I can't see how they wouldn't get broken. I definitely think there can be too much routine.

When I was your son's age, I really needed routine. I depended on it, basically. In Elementary school, I NEEDED to have schedule taped on my desk, I was completely lost without it.

I am almost 16 now, and still don't like sudden changes. I like to be warned about a change. Even if it's positive because people ALWAYS announce that there will be a change, before they announce what the change is. However, I better with routine than I used to be. It may get better with age.

My daughter functions much better with a strict routine. I would think his erratic and violent behavior would be a sign that he NEEDS that routine. With some kids, like my daughter, the chaos is just too much for their already overwhelmed system. Being able to rely on knowing what is going to happen and when alleviates the need to constantly be on alert for the next change. Transitions are very hard for my daughter and getting her used to transitions is very important and can take a long time. Christmas break is hard on a lot of kids and even more difficult for kids with transition issues. Yes, it's a major hassle for me to keep the routine at all times but it is for the benefit of everyone when my daughter is less anxious and in a pleasant mood.

to me it sounds like he may NEED the routine, if he reacted that strongly to losing it. even if he was fine without the routine before going to nursery, now that hes had the routine, it may be something he needs. it could have given him a sense of stability that he now feels lost without.

my youngest is turning 5 next month, and does much better with a routine than without one. our home is fairly chaotic as well, but we try to keep a basic routine for major things like bath and bedtime. before we had even the bedtime routine, it was much more difficult to get him to go to bed. now he settles down much easier and is sleeping better.

as for the greetings, its really common with autistics to see a lack of social greetings. they may be giving him scripted responses to get him to use social greetings. if he has any trouble with conversational speech, then scripted responses are easier for him to start with than expecting him to create his own response. if he attends speech therapy, thats probably where its coming from. if hes not attending speech therapy, then it may simply be something they are teaching as polite manners. social greetings may not seem like they are something that benefit him, but they are an integral part of social interaction. even if they dont benefit him, they shouldnt hurt him any either. i am working with my son on social greetings a lot right now, otherwise he completely ignores other people when he or they enter or leave a room.

I think routine is great, but we do have to teach our children that life is full of surprises, interruptions, changes, etc....Actually, my son's pre-k teacher did suggest doing small things to change the routine from time to time to work on teaching flexibility. This is an important skill to have. I would say stick to a routine as much as possible, but work with your child to teach him that he can "be okay" if something happens to disrupt the routine. Warnings that a change is coming are very helpful. Sometimes I give my son a few warnings that something new is going to happen. My son is actually pretty flexible and not very routine oriented. I do like to do the nighttime routine with him though because it seems to help him settle down and sleep better.

I know what you mean about the scripted language. My son started saying hi to adults and he would say it over and over. Well I guess they taught him to move on to the next question and then he started saying "where are you from?" I thought it was cute, but a little odd for a 4 yr (at the time) to be asking adults "Where are you from?"
In time, it seems as though some of the scripted phrases do seem to fade though.

Just trust your instincts and do what you think is best. You are taking care of your son for more hours than they have him at school!

My son fights routines tooth and nail...but also clearly needs them. We often get a spike in stress-behavior over holidays if we don't offer some kind of routine for him during the break from school (usually keeping our normal morning and evening routines are enough.)

I know he needs them because we just aren't naturally routine-driven people and he didn't have a routine until he was 3 and in preschool; when we increased preschool to 5 days a week his relief was palpable. Preschool really offered him what he needed: a long, slow routine with about an hour between each transition. He was calmer then than I've known him to be since.

I'd agree with what azurecrayon is saying - and add that you might want to ease the transition to vacation by maintaining some kind of routine at home. Watching television helps, believe it or not - a given show is on at the same time every day (doesn't have to be huge lengths of time with the TV - DS gets 1 show in the morning and 1 in the evening.)

I am a scheduled type of person. I think it is an only child, Type A thing in my case. However, I never have fallen apart without one. I will preface this by saying I have twins and triplets, so my planning skills came into good use. When my kids were small, we lived by a schedule. I didn't realize one of my kids was AS then, we just knew he had a lot of sensory issues and seemed like a professor. He too would answer social type questions with echolalia sometimes. I think our scheduled lifestyle helped him a lot.

It sounds like your son really needs a schedule. Even if you don't like schedules, it could make your and your son's life a whole lot easier. As he gets older, he probably won't fall apart anymore, but you may sense that he always does better if his schedule is consistent. I think most AS people learn to realize that last minute changes happen and it can be okay with it, but that comes with maturity. Your son is only 3 right now. You said your life at home is chaotic. Honestly, I don't see how that can be good for a NT or AS child. I would work on creating some consistency for your son at home. Good Luck.

I found your replies very interesting. I think i will just stick to doing his 'now, next and later board' at home - its got no times and is fairly flexible and he does at least know whats going on. I am still pondering on wether it is in his best interest. Yes he was doing well, but also, before he went to nursery he was fine with our life being a bit chaotic - he only started breaking stuf when he had it - then it was taken away. I am still not sure if that makes it ok.

When i say 'our life is a bit chaotic' i just mean i can never tell if Daddy will be here from one minute to the next - he is a long distance lorry driver and spends some evenings away. Also, my mother is in her eighties and alone and unwell and i may have to go round there at the drop of a hat. Just makes routines a bit difficult to follow and i don't want to keep upsetting him by having to alter the schedule all the time... we always had a bedtime routine, and i recently started a now, next and later board but i think i will observe him a bit more before i go further.

Thanks for your experiences, please post more if you have any.

It sounds like he needs more routine rather than less to me as well.

A few observations about routine and my DS...,...

He's not change resistant but change reactive. What that means is he doesnt require or really even like a rigid routine, but when there is a change we have a marked increase in meltdowns. After calendaring this, I was able to see the pattern.

Our routines have to do with the order of things, not times. So... The music wakes him up, clothes, breakfast then teeth and hair then off to school. That's the order, no need to do it differently. Now, I am aware of the times to make that work, but we stay with the order. I don't think the charts are helpful for my DS. Just keep stuff the same or give advance notice (and know he'll still go through changes)

DH also travels for a living, so unfortunately he is not part of the order of the day. He's a nice addition, but we don't have any tasks in the schedule that require him when he's here. More work for me but really, so are meltdowns

My DH works in the music industry and has basically no routine at all. We prefer not to manage to a tight schedule. We have found that life is more harmonious with certain daily necessities in order, even though it's not our style.

Routine has been the best thing ever for this house. My son did terribly at a preschool that did not have a visual schedule for the day. He is now in a classroom where the teacher provides a visual schedule for the benefit of all of the children and he does much better.

We institute visual schedules at our house when we run into rough patches, but we've found that our basic, yet, somewhat loose at times, routine is enough for him. However, when we hit a holiday week or something, we definitely see some regression in his behavior.

I'd say, try a basic routine at home and see how it goes. If it was working for him at school before, I think it's a good thing. As he gets more comfortable in the environment, you can work with him on loosening up the schedule a bit. My son is actually LESS rigid when we have a routine in place. We can actually go and "change the picture" or whatever to represent what we are going to do. But, there are certain basic things that always happen.