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Asperger's and lying ... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next  
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Aeturnus
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 835

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Asperger's and lying ... Reply with quote

What sometimes perplexes me is the concept that an aspie couldn't lie because of "theory of mind" deficits. I think it amounts to a notion that we aspies don't want to be involved with people who do lie, because we want to be perceived as the most rational types on the planet. Rationality is still in the eye of the beholder, and whether we want to believe it or not ... What we think of as rational is only rational to the person who believes it. Others may not view it as rational, hence we can be seen as quite stubborn.

I think an aspie can lie, and it seems to be a bit of concern on some parent forums regarding asperger's, where they are becoming more concerned with their aspie teens lying straight to their faces. I think an aspie can lie better than an NT because of the lack of emotion, thus coming off straight-faced. On the other hand, I don't think an aspie can effectively manipulate someone with a lie for a very long period of time, for that requires far more advanced social skills.

I can lie myself, but was never really good at it. I ended up getting caught quite often, and my parents, mostly my mother, has always said that she can tell when I lie by emotional expressions. I tend to laugh on doing so, as if I want to get caught, but I have usually only lied when wanting things to be a bit more joyous around me. I sometimes feel uneasy in situations where people tend to appear to be more agitated or concerned. So, I sort of lied and then laughed, and the lies were usually bizarre anyway. It's just that I did it enough in school for people to start talking to me about crying wolf. I was sort of known for telling outrageous stories.

- Ray M -
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Vinzer
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 524
Location: The Land of Eternal Suck

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lie constantly, and I'd say I'm pretty damn good at it. Not being very expressive and seeming serious all the time is great, because people will always assume that whatever you're saying is true.
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Minerva
Tufted Titmouse
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Joined: Apr 30, 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've lied before, but not to the point where I've started acting truly manipulative.
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Justin
Emu Egg
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Joined: Jul 18, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good lord, I can lie. I developed it in my school years, when I wanted to focus on studying something interesting instead of doing my homework.

"Did you do your homework?"
"Yes."
"Oh, good."

And yeah, it's pretty ridiculously easy to lie, but I've kicked that habit. It just makes people trust me less. I bet I could beat lie detector tests too.

Also, I have mastered a way to detect lying from NT. You don't have to look at body language or tone of voice or anything. The trick is, they get really emotional when they have to tell a lie. Instead of answering it, they'll try to avoid/disprove the question itself, or ask another question.

The truth:
"Did you mow the lawn?" "No."
"Are you cheating on me?" "Yes."

The lies:
"Did you mow the lawn?" "I said I would, didn't I?"
"Are you cheating on me?" "Why would you think I'm cheating on you!? Don't you trust me?"

This simple rule of thumb has worked for me every time I tested it. It only works on the first, immediate response, though. If they answer yes/no/I-don't-know before they start digging at where it came from, that is more of a sign of intelligence than guilt.
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Stoke
Butterfly
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Joined: Jun 02, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I always understood Asperger's and lying was that there were two categories, those that never or rarely lie and then those that lie a lot, and get pathologically good at it. I fall in to the latter category. I don't lie all the time but I have lied, or not told the whole truth, a lot in the past so now I can quickly come up with a good lie for just about anything.

An article I read a while ago that you might find interesting is AS grows up, just scroll down to "Asperger Syndrome and Telling the Truth."
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Veresae
succubus bait
Phoenix


Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3452

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't lie much. I can, I just don't usually choose to. Sometimes I "accidentally" exaggerate the truth in order to make a point, but usually to me this exaggerated version of the truth sorta becomes the truth.... >.<
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SheDevil
Blue Jay
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Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would anyone consider an omission a lie?



SheDevil
(NT victim of silence Confused )


Last edited by SheDevil on Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Dandelion
Blue Jay
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Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never could lie convincingly. But I did, eventually, learn to tell the complete truth in a way that makes everyone think I am lying. Which is really only useful while playing bullshit (a card game).
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JulieArticuno
Deinonychus
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Joined: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lie occasionally-usually to avoid "hurting someone's feelings"(my mum was VERY big oin this-probably cos I unintentionally used to by telling the truth) or not get into trouble. I canNOT tell a lie that might get someone else in trouble.

Funny enough I can tell the most enormous fibs with a straight face. It's fibs that don;t hurt anyone and make people laugh when I relate how someone was taken in.

The one of these I can best remember is convincing people that a Jurassic Park type livinbg dino exhibitioning would be opening on the Green Belt around London in July 2007. As far as I can tell, I took in 4 people with that-all because I'm good at keeping a straight face.

Julie
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Captain_Brown
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 699

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't lie.
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Aspie_Chav
Phoenix
Phoenix


Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 3059
Location: Croydon

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aspies tend not to lie because it henders the progress of science. Lying doe not hender the progress of politics or religion, it actually helps it along.
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
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Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 10291
Location: Tallahassee, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave up lying 30 years ago, but I can still do it when it seems like the lesser of evils. I tell jokes with a perfectly straight face, pulling your leg type stuff. No wonder people don't get me.
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muchacha
Toucan
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Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that one reason that Aspies can be good liars is that the actions and motives that we might be trying to hide, often aren't ones that seem rational or logical to an NT person. Usually when people suspect that someone is lying, it's because it involves such common actions such as stealing or cheating - and common, effective ways of doing them - that they can be anticipated.

When something seems inconsistent or out of character in someone's story, people smell a rat. I can only speak for myself here but people usually think there is no rhyme or reason to anything I do, so nothing I say shocks them. Actually, people more often think I'm lying when I'm not.

And no...I'm not going to tell you what I lie about. Embarassed
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MagicMike
Phoenix
Phoenix


Joined: May 30, 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't lie outright. Half-truths (e.g. distorting one minor fact in the face of the bigger picture) however are game to me.
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anandamide
Phoenix
Phoenix


Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 735

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SheDevil wrote:
Would anyone consider an omission a lie?



SheDevil
(NT victim of silence Confused )


Of course! Omitting to tell someone the truth is a lie. I knew this woman who omitted to tell the men she slept with that she had herpes. I knew another person who omitted to tell the person investing in their business deal that they were in cahoots with a well known crook. People who "simply" omit to tell the truth can be the most dangerous liars of all.
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