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MindBlind
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Sick of people undermining aspergers/HFA Reply with quote

This is something of a rant, I guess, but aren't you guys sick and tired of people undermining your difficulties just because you happen to be higher functioning than those who have classic autism? I can't stand people saying that my experiences mean nothing or that my difficulties are nothing just because I'm supposedly more able than another autistic person for whatever reason or that my opinion don't matter because I don't speak for everyone. I can't stand the term "shiny aspie" and how it's becoming derogatory term. Oh, apparently if you do well, that's bad (wtf?). I'm not trying to attack other autistics or their carers, etc. I just think that this whole civil war between AS and Autism is a load of crap and it's damaging.

I appreciate that you have a hard life and I want to learn, but I don't want to be attacked because my difficulties are different. I don't want to be undermined and, no, you don't know what I go through what my life is like. You don't know shit about me, so don't even pretend. I don't care if you have a second cousin who lives in Albuquerque who is severely autistic, who can't dress himself, feed himself and so on and so fourth. That's him, not me. He's a different person than me. That doesn't make me any less autistic. I also have a history of anxiety problems - do I have the right to attack someone with OCD because they don;t have MY type of anxiety (panic disorder)? No - that's not fair, so why is it okay when it comes to autism?

Phew - I'm sorry, that's a little incoherent. Basically, I wanted to know if other people have had similar experiences of their disability not being taken seriously because "you're not autistic enough". For balance, maybe those with a more severe case of autism can tell us what they feel about this.

I've had a pretty bad experience with a certain someone who claims to have Autistic Disorder plus a million other illnesses who is ( I kid you not) an elitist. Supposedly, she has "more value" as a disabled person because of how disabeld she is and refuses to believe that aspies are disabledif they don't seem disabled to her. I don't think I need to mention the parents who have undermined me as well (e.g "You're nothing like MY child!").

Ugh, I hate the world sometimes.....
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Tsukimi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just try to stay out of those discussions. Some (not all) parents of LFAs are so upset that they are angry with the whole world and they just want to pick on someone - so AS is just an excuse. Recently I have been said I am too attractive to be an Aspie - now you see why there is no point in reasoning with them.
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kx250rider
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tsukimi wrote:
Recently I have been said I am too attractive to be an Aspie - now you see why there is no point in reasoning with them.


Very true; you cannot reason with that kind of person! And I despise judgemental people, as they think they can decide who is right, who is wrong, who is lazy, and who is successful or failing. Those are the people who would be disappointed in you, even if you are a brain surgeon... They'd say "Sure; you're a brain surgeon, but that's only because you knew you'd probably have failed law school, and you settled for medical school".

They need a dirty sock wadded up and stuffed in the mouth, so we don't have to hear their opinions (which they consider to be facts).

Charles
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Yensid
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people are just wrapped up in their own issues, to the extent that they are unable to see anything else. Just remember that you have as much right to deal with your own issues as anybody else.
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ASdogGeek
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get really frustrated in those situations! I get talks like this all thee time because I have an autism service dog so people ask many are nice but on occasion I get ones who don't believe me, think I am not severe enough or that I am faking or misdiagnosed. I have had family tell me before " you only have a very mild form the are people who have it a lot worse," I know that but it doesn't mean I don't still have my own struggles and challenges and it often makes me wish I never learned to talk at 3 and remained nonverbal
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wavefreak58
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a thing called "The Peter Principle". It essentially is a person will always rise to their level of least competence. It is used to describe how a person moves through a large corporation, starting out doing really well on projects, having greater responsibility and complexity assigned to him, and eventually being assigned things that are beyond him so he starts to fail.

I see this in play with functioning levels in autism. Basically, I am expected to do more because I am "more functional" but I am eventually expected to do more than I can actually handle well. But blaming this failure on my autism is "wrong", even if it is actually misplaced expectations and not me failing to meet some arbitrary standard of functioning.
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Phonic
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

something I've been thinking about I think you'll agree on:

HFA is less sever then LFA, but that doesn't make it mild, I've had issues with this with my brother, who disparaged my condition saying I have a "very very very mild form of autism", that really upset me, it's like telling someone who can't walk that they shouldn't complain since their are people who can't move at all, not being able to walk is still a rather difficult thing to live with, and so is HFA.
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MindBlind
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's such a relief to know that others feel the same about this. Like I said, I would never undermine anybody's difficulties on the grounds of functioning level. Heck, some of the most independent and capable people I know struggle greatly to get by. I just hate this "No true Scotsman" fallacy that is invoked in many internet flame wars when it comes to who gets to advocate for such and such and who has it rough, blah blah blah.
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Surfman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In actuality its very hard for HFA's

If my appearance was not so nearly perfect Rolling Eyes I would have been helped throughout my life, not HARMED, because I look like I need help...


HFA's look better than most on paper.

'You look fine to me'

Isn't HFA a trendy diagnosis?

If we looked like downs syndrome people we wouldn't be bullied...........
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draelynn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've experienced it in my daughters case. The support groups I try to join all automatically note that my daughter was never non verbal or had no violent meltdowns - just some 'overly dramatic' crying. My daughter isn't autistic enough for them.

I'm also disturbed by the number of stories I keep reading about families who have severely autistic children being shocked, amazed and overriddeen with guilt because they find out in their childs teens or later that their child has an active, lively mind hidden behind their inability to communicate. They were told and believed that their child had the cognitive ability of a 3 year old. It never occurred to them or to their doctors that their child may have the communication skills of a 3 year old but much more advanced cognitive abilities.

Point is - people underestimate the autistic all the time. And autism - being a spectrum - has high points and low points and a whole lot in the middle. If people truly want to enforce and further strengthen the stereotypes, they are welcomed to make their comparisions and pass their judgements. It's what a good deal of our society does anyway. I just don't want to hear anyone crying foul when those who are being stereotyped, judged and otherwise demeaned in their challenges fight back.

Pick your battles wisely.
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Yensid
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, this is common in psychological support groups. In abuse-recovery groups, they call it "abuse-sizing". People who were severely physically abused would dismiss the complaints of those who had lesser abuse. The reality is that it was all destructive, and survivors had more in common with each other than they had differences. In abuse-recovery, there is a saying, "don't abuse-size." I suppose the equivalent in WrongPlanet terms would be "don't autism-size."
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League_Girl
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find the "I am more disabled than you" or "My kid is more disabled than yours" is one of my biggest pet peeves.

I hate it when people act like HFA is nothing or AS or "mild AS" because that is basically doing the "I am more disabled than you and you're nothing so you can't struggle" or the "my kid is more disabled than yours so he is nothing and he can't struggle." They think they are entitled to think that way just because they are more disabled or their child and people should understand. To me that is like saying someone had a crappy childhood so we should be able to understand the crimes they committed in their adulthood. That is acting like it's all okay.
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Verdandi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got into a pretty frustrating argument like this a couple weeks ago. I do not love the fact that it happened, or that I didn't see it coming. I do not love being told I don't know what difficulty is because I haven't had it as bad as someone else, or that this appears to be the case.
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cosmiccat
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phonic wrote:
something I've been thinking about I think you'll agree on:

HFA is less sever then LFA, but that doesn't make it mild, I've had issues with this with my brother, who disparaged my condition saying I have a "very very very mild form of autism", that really upset me, it's like telling someone who can't walk that they shouldn't complain since their are people who can't move at all, not being able to walk is still a rather difficult thing to live with, and so is HFA.


I like this and I agree completely. I have HFA too and I think it's funny and frustrating at the same time that the "very, very, very mild" adjectives are viewed by some people as meaning "Autism so mild that it's not there". I don't complain a lot but I do go bananas privately when my family, my closet family, husband and children, refuse to acknowledge, even after a professional dx, that my brain works differently from the norm and what may be easy for them is not always easy for me. But even worse is that it seems as if they are laughing about it and deliberately refusing to believe it, as if they know me better than I know myself.

Sorry, I could rant about this too, but I didn't intend to. I sometimes forget how upsetting this problem really is to me until I come across a discussion like this.
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anbuend
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get really irritated at people who use their difficulties to assume that people seen as having "mild AS" don't have real difficulties or don't really need a diagnosis or whatever. I've known enough autistic people from enough of the various severity labels that get so easily thrown about (despite the fact that, scientifically, we don't even know what autism is never mind how to define severity) that I know that being in the category considered mild doesn't mean you can't have severe problems in specific areas. It just means that in a small number of areas you happen to appear (to most people, often because of very specific but widespread prejudices about how the human brain works) not to have trouble. And I get sick of it when people don't seem to give a crap what people they stomp on because they have severe issues and therefore they ought to dictate to those with "milder" issues (which may not actually be milder, but that's another story entirely) what to do with their lives/diagnosis/etc. And I get sick of the idea that "having severe issues" (however that gets defined, and it's often defined in seriously weird ways) or "having a child with severe issues" gives a person more license to dictate to everyone else what "real" autism is. (And mind you, I'm not classified as mild, so don't try to tell me that's why it pisses me off. It pisses me off because I'm a human being and can see how it hurts other human beings who are just as real as the other person. It pisses me off because people who do this usually feel no responsibility for the lives they're screwing around with. And so many other reasons besides.)
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