engineering/accounting/actuary...really need advice

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Hello people. It is so sad for me to write this. But I really need advice.

Let me start with my story:

I have done 2,5 year of a 5 year engineering study. During these years I did really well, and got excellent grades. I really enjoyed courses like mathematics and physics. I am really good at learning stuff and doing the excercises, and get good grades at the exam. However, when these years was over and the engineering courses came, I kind of failed. These are more creative and require a lot of more complex thinking. School became very hard when it was not just reading and calculating from examples etc.. I became extremely depressed and required menthal help.

Now I am working to get out of the depression etc.. My dream has allways been to get a university education, and then a good job, that is the only thing I actally has ever cared about for an extremely long time. I asked the psychologist if maybe I wasn't cut out for university, but she said that my good results tells me that I am.

Now I am trying to find out what to do with my life, it really has not much meaning at this point. I may get some disability to continue my education, because we have good rules here. But I need to choose carefully what to do, I can not allow this to happen again.

I was thinking about maybe going in to accounting. In my view it seemed like something that would fit my skills: I learn a lot of rules on how to do things, and then do them. Am I thinking correct here? Many people here say accounting is good for AS. But when I searh more and start digging, and actually find aspies that went into accounting(read their posts on the net), the story isn't that good. It seems like a profession that really requires alot of social interaction etc.. I like to work alone with my own stuff, and not beeing so social. Are there any accountants here that can give me some thoughts about what they are thinking about my situation? I do find social interation ok. But I really don't think I communicate that well, or atleast not as precise as I would like. So I'd like an office job where I sit a lot by myself.

I also consider that actuary is something I could look into, since I only have A's in my math subjects. But still, these are low level(bachelor) subjects. I mean, if the engineering was too hard for me, I am guessing actuary is also to hard. There probably isn't a recipie on what to do? You have to think. And be creative? Does accounting has the recipie(do this, then this, then this) element?

So I really feel I have wasted my life, or at least some years. In some ways I think I overated my skills. I have only proven my self on solving text-book problems.

Therefore I would really appreciate tips on what I should consider at this time. I would really appreciate feedback from people that have taken the education I am talking about in my post. And any other tips on what may suit me would also be greatly appreciated.

And that was everything.

I am not an accountant but one of my sisters is.

The joke about accountants is:

Q: "How do you tell if your accountant is an extrovert?"
A: "He stares at YOUR shoes while talking to you"

I can tell you from what she has complained about in their difficulty in hiring new associates at the firm she works for, just being able to do simple maths on paper puts you ahead of 70% of applicants. You'd be amazed how many people who claim accounting experience on their resume can't add a column of numbers without the help of a machine.

Unfortunately current engineering courses are not designed so much as to teach, but to weed out people who can't learn in a particular manner, for no practical reason other than the fact that a bunch of close minded #$%^'s think that there is a right way and wrong way to learn, and if you can't learn their way (the "right" way) then you have no business being in engineering.

To add to the misery, instructors at universities are not hired to teach based on how well they can teach. They are hired based on how prestigious their "rap sheet" is, how many papers they have published, and how well known they are in their field.

You should, by all means, continue with university, and if you wish to change your major, then do so, but don't correlate how well you learn at a university with how smart you are or how easy or difficult a subject is. How well you learn at a university only reflects how well the university's teaching style matches your learning style.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose engineering?

Heyas,

So I'll probably end up the first "bummer voice" in this post. I'm not trying to attack yourself or devalue the other replies, this is just my perspective. I trained as an engineer, and I've been around actuary statisticians.

As you discovered, as you advance along an engineering track, the work isn't simply about pulling the closest matching complete formula from a textbook, plugging the numbers in the right spots, and getting the exact results out.

The first couple of years of a typical engineering track provide basic tools. But there's no easy way to teach conservative intuition or conservative creativity.

That bit is sort-of like dancing: a person can be shown the basic moves, but to elevate the moves into art, one has to perform the moves themselves, sometimes practicing over and over again.

Regrettably, actuary science is similar to engineering in that the initial study provideds basic tools, but doing significant work as an actuary requires ingenuity on a regular basis.

By the way, do you trust your career counselors to provide good advice? They could be a resource for helping with these questions.

Funny joke. But the problem is that in a lot of the ads they say they want social people. Ah I see your sister frustration, but machines are all around us today, we should just use them as help. =) But what is her experience with social interaction? Are there a lot of people not able to do their job because of social limitation? How much of the time is done doing work, and how much is beeing social?(Beeing social is also work, but you see what I mean!:))



Thanks for your words, but I really am not bitter at the university. The only one I hold responsible is myself. I chose engineering because I thought I was able to do it well. As I said, I am good at learning stuff and then doing that stuff. Like learning how to calculate and then calculate. Anyone have any tips about this?



Don't worry you are not a bummer voice. It actually seems like you really understood what it is I want to do. And yeah, it was fun the first couple of years, learning the basics. Do you or anyone else know if accounting would suit me? Like I asked for over, I like not having to figure out so much what to do, but doing things that I have practiced on. Is accounting ok in this, or does it require a lot of designing, and creative thinking?

And no, I don't trust career counselors. They usually do not seem qualified to give people advice that are life-changing.

Thanks for your replies. I am in a situation where any advice is appreciated. I also really appreciate you guys telling me about your background when giving me advice.

Take care!

My sister prepares quarterly reports for small companies, so a couple times a week she visits a client or a client visits her. There can be several calls a day near the end of a quarter, and given that there are a variety of fiscal years in use, there's some regular rate of telephone conversation, but in the 12 or so years she's held that job i think maybe one time i tried to contact her at work and she was unavailable.

So, for her specific job, there is some interaction, but not a ton.

About the math skills, I'm actually not kidding. Yes, accountants use accounting software and adding machines and calculators, but if you are bad at math you will be a poor accountant.

I was just talking to my sister about this a couple hours ago - she says that if you can balance your own checkbook you can be an accountant. And you'd be amazed how many people come through the doors of the firm she works at, resume in hand, who cannot do this.

It's really amazing. All the social advances of the last few hundred years and we're back to a point where basic math skills are exceptional.

There are probably accounting positions with far less social interaction than the gig my sister has. She works at one of the leading firms in the area, but there are a lot of corporate accounting jobs where people probably just crunch numbers all day.

Hope you find some accountants and actuaries to talk to.

The joke about actuaries is, an actuary is a person who always brings his own bomb on an airplane - because the chances of there being TWO bombs on the same airplane are astronomical.

What about Mathematician?

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos043.htm

Sorry I couldn't get the link to work. If you don't mind going all the way to PhD, then it's definitely a good career field for you.

I do recommend that you become an Accountant, if this field is of any interest to you. I am an accountant myself, and my father is an engineer.

Accountants find it easier to find a job than any other profession, because EVERY company needs accounting done, no matter what the company does or whether the economy is good or bad. You might find 20 companies hiring engineers in a city, but 1,000 companies are hiring accountants.

Accountants are not expected to be social. They work in a nice quiet office by themselves almost all the time. Accountants have a reputation for being quiet and serious. You can even dress in the same black or grey suit every day and no one will notice. People will think you're just normal if you don't socialize.

Accounting is very easy work if you're good at math. Most people find it's boring, but you might like how it's the same every day and this might suit you perfectly. It is a good job for people who like details and perfection, since all your numbers must always add up exactly. You never have to guess anything or think creatively at all.

Also accountants have a lot more power in a company than Engineers. If you're hired as a company Controller or Auditor, everybody will fear and respect you. If you're an Engineer, everyone will yell at you and keep telling you to work faster. I know this because I was an accountant at two engineering companies so I know how engineers are treated badly. Accountants are allowed to come to work late or to leave early for a doctor's appointment. Accountants get the nicest offices of all workers except for the boss.

Also, accountants can be hired by the Government. Once you get hired by the Government, you practically have a secure job for life since you will never be fired. An accountant for the government is the most secure job in the world. There are almost no surprises in an accountant's job. Everything is nice and predictable most of the time. It's a very calm and quiet job.

I think becoming an Accountant would be an excellent career for an Aspie like you. You will never be unemployed as an Accountant. I think you would be very happy as an Accountant. Also you will make an excellent income and be respected as a serious person.

Just make sure that if you're an accountant, you also exercise outside of work. Accounting is such a quiet job that you might get fat from sitting at your desk counting numbers every day.

Thanks for your information!=)




I liked math on a basic level. That is, in calculus I only got A. But I am good at learning how to calculate and then doing it, not research and finding new things.



I looks interesting, but the thing is, so did engineering.=)

Why do you think it is an excellent career for me? Is it like how I described? That you learn how to do something, and then do it? Is it sometimes unclear what to do?, and then you have to like figure that out? Example: In calculus you learn techniques and then follow them, but in computer-programming it is unclear sometimes, because there are many ways to complete a task, many different sollutions(codes) may work. I like one sollution.

The last advice is very good, I know how important it is!

It is nice to meet an aspie who made it as an accountant. There are some horror-stories here at Wrongplanet.

I am an accountant, and I am very happy with my profession.

As said before, every company needs one and if you're good at what you're doing you'll not have problems finding a job. Internal accountants in companies are really not expected to be social, but they are expected to be 'a bit strange'. Usually you're left alone most of the year and when it comes to the time of year when balances have to be presented it's usually you who does the work and the others who will talk about it.

But: accounting's got nothing to do with mathematics. I had a hard time passing math at university. Excel and calculators is all you need.

If you can imagine being an accountant, doing the same work day-in day-out and if this interests you then I recommend you to go for it.

*shrug* the firm my sister works for gives a written math test with the application form, ever since some associates who were very bad at math made some bad mistakes that cost the firm a lot of time, money, and reputation.

but aspie attention to detail should probably make up for mediocre math skills, and we're not talking about complex math anyway.

How do you find the law part of accounting? We probably live in different countries, so there may be som differences. But that seem to worry me a bit too. I've been good with logical reasoning, and it seems when it comes to law it has a lot to do with remembering stuff. Am I correct here? I've tried reading the laws of my country, and it is hard do understand.

I haven't read through all the posts here, but since I am a CPA, I figured I should post.

If you want a career in accounting, as opposed to a just a job, you will have to be social, you will have to be able to communicate well in writing, and you will have to be able to meet time budgets, in addition to having good number sense and an understanding of how the accounting rules work. A lot of people go into accounting because they are attracted by the day to day work, without realizing what it takes to make a career. Careers are made on interpersonal relations, in addition to competency with the work. In public accounting that is because the business is a service business, based on obtaining and pleasing clients. In private accounting, that is because accounting is a support department, that must interact with and be meaningful to the rest of the company.

Unless you are a clerk doing little but data entry, you won't escape the need to communicate intelligently and professionally, gathering information from people uninterested in what you are asking, or delivering information to people who need you to simplify what you are saying so they can use it.

You are asked to display quickly the skills needed for higher levels, to show you can supervise and manage, because up or out is the mantra of many firms.

You must work fast and within budget, while still getting it all close enough to right.

The math we do is really basic, but I've found that my affinity for math gives me sharper instincts on what makes sense v what does not, and helps me find problems faster. It is an asset, but not a requirement. Still, you are telling a story through numbers, so while you may not need an affinity for math, you should have a love for numbers.

I will say that since so many non-social people choose the profession, that I was given a good amount of on-the-job training for these skills. But the reality is that the smart enough jock I went to high school with has out performed me in this profession by miles. It's people like him who rake in the top positions. I'm articulate enough and smart enough to always have a job - I've always been considered a technical star (I long ago chose tax as my specialty) - but I'm left generally left to be second fiddle to someone with the social genius I lack. It's just fortunate I really am THAT good at the technical and creative stuff, or I'd have been toast long ago. It was a rocky road for the first two years.

I do come at this from a public accounting angle, because that has been my career, and my experience is that the people who will take the prime jobs in private pay their dues in public first - many comptrollers are hired straight from firm to client, passing over the company's internal staff. A solid career path in either public or private will require you get your CPA designation; without it, options will always be more limited. If you don't mind limited options that is fine, but I confess I've been sad for so many that I mentored who had tons of talent but who lost so many career options by leaving public before they had the designation, we're all 20 years down the line and the difference is striking.

I just hate to see people make decisions they don't see all the ramifications of. And it's hard enough to have an imperfect skill set and have to make your way in this world; watching people you consider less smart always get the best cookies is frustrating, so the more you reduce that factor, the more satisfied you'll be in your job.

PS - since these kinds of questions get asked a lot, maybe we should try to develop a sticky with summaries of what different common careers require?

Additional notes on accounting:

Experiences vary because a lot of different jobs fall into the category, with the main career paths being Tax, Consulting, Auditing, Internal Accounting, Financial Analysis, or Bookkeeping.

It also varies because the tenor of the employer can vary so widely. You can be working for a small firm with aggressive owners, a large firm with bureaucratic owners, in manufacturing or in service, and so on.

If you desire repetitive work, which is generally more entry level, one thing to consider is your processing speed, since that is likely to effect how fast you work. There seem to be Aspies with faster than normal processing speeds, and Aspies with slower than normal processing speeds. Note that my whole family, diagnosed AS or not, has slower processing speed: it takes longer to do a basic task than average. In repetitive work, being FAST will be valued very highly. Since I was never fast, I HAD to make sure I added value through something else, like the ability to see issues others were missing, or piecing together a complex answer no one was able to get at (for that, I'm fast). Business is about making money, remember. How do you plan to help them make money, compared to the next guy?

Finally, remember that who you are today is not who you will be in 5 years. I chose accounting because I was terrified of interviewing for a job, and it seemed to be a field with a lot of jobs. But after initially failing to get any of the prime jobs, and settling with a less desirable one, I found that I cared a LOT about the career path I was not yet taking. I got bored fast and frustrated with what I saw as the stupidity of my bosses. My first job didn't like me because I wasn't fast enough, and the owners didn't even take the time to find out what I was doing for their clients in other ways. My second job was just total low rent, people who didn't even want it done right. My third job, which I got through a friend I met working on my master's degree ... THAT was a good one, and by then I'd had enough taste of the field to have confidence in my technical abilities, and to not be willing to settle anymore for a "job;" I knew I wanted to be able to influence decisions, not just take orders, etc. I had to reinvent myself as a person of confidence, and I did. I got "hungry" as we say in the business world, and "hunger" takes you far. So ... be careful of saying, "I don't care about that," because while you don't today, you might tomorrow. You can and will change over the next 5 years. A LOT.

None of us can answer if it will suit you. It's actually pretty funny that I ended up specializing in taxes, when you consider how terrified I was filling out my first short form tax return for a part time job I had in college; that must have taken me two hours, I was so worried! Over our lives we all end up doing many things we weren't sure we ever could. But, some limitations are real, and will never go away, and so must be factored in: I'll never be fast (in fact, it's gotten worse with age), and I'll never be able to multitask all day, every day (I can for a spurt, but that's it; overall, I do my best work in short concentrated spurts and then need to refocus; having to be productive for 8 hours straight is a huge challenge), and I'll never be able to remember the names, faces, kids, jobs, and financial details of a thousand unique clients and eagerly chat up each one without having to check any notes (that is probably my boss' biggest asset, his memory). But so many other things I've done and been good at that I couldn't foresee back when I made that pick of a major ... it would have been nice to have that list, but it just isn't the way it works.

So. You can read the notes and figure the pros sound attractive and the cons non-prohibitive, or the opposite. Trust your gut and hope for the best.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 27 Jun 2011, 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

If you are talking about career as in being promoted a lot, I believe that will always require you to be social, no matter what line of work you are in.
I can't think of any job in the world where expertise is enough for that. So I'm not sure this is to be held against accounting careers.