question about non linear thinking

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could anybody explain to me why it is said that autistic people have non-linear thinking, while at the same time, often like to make lists.

That's a funny one. I often think that NTs have non-linear thinking, because people come across as disorganised to me, which is why I find most people so unpredictable and annoying.

I think linear thinking is a personality thing, not so much part of your neurology, because I find different people think at different paces and organise their lifestyle in different ways. My mum is NT and she likes to carefully plan her day ahead, and she's always writing lists and sticking to them. But her sister, who is NT, is the complete opposite - she's always well behind and seems to think that time stands still for her, and she wastes so much time by flitting about that she then ends up rushing around doing everything at the last minute, and she doesn't seem to learn by these mistakes. It's just part of her personality, I suppose.

I wouldn't say I'm over organised, but I am definately not under organised either. But I do tend to leave tasks 'til the last minute, like for example if the jobcentre gives me a new website to go on, I tend to go on it on the night before my next appointment, even though I had two weeks to do it. That's just typical of me. I don't associate that entirely on AS though. Half of it I associate with laziness. I should really learn how to buck my ideas up.

I do get annoyed with Autistic traits because you read one trait, then somewhere else it says the trait is the complete opposite, so you don't always know which one to believe.

Ive noticed that often NTs thinking is more linear than mine. I think in concepts and pictures, I find these forms of thinking not well suited for linear processing. On the otherhand I am disorganised and because I dont think in a linear manner, if I want to get anything done other that what is interesting me at that point in time then I need a prioritised list in order to actually remember and do it. Planning often requires making a list because I think it is the only way for me to organise and sequence (plan) actions that need to happen.

To have useful model of the world, you have to have lines of some sort connecting cause ---> effect ----> cause ----> effect etc. So in a sense, we do think in a linear fashion, but because our lines follow a different path, it looks non-linear .

N.T.s (or heteristics as I call them) are generalists, employing top down thinking. They have no problem condensing their models into simplistic cause and effect models that are very conducive to a narrow linear chain - and more useful for every day life and common sense. Autistics on the other hand, use bottom up thinking. We have a million different associations, because the way we process is more raw and sensory driven. This is why we get overwhelmed easily. It's just hard to focus one track when at each associated idea has dozens of branching implications.

We love lists because they let us tangibly follow the chain of an idea to a conclusion; since our understanding of the world is less intuitive and generic, we need specific data points to use as a guide to coming to a conclusion.

So basically, we experience input in a more raw form, which means it's less generic, and thus it is not as intuitive which branch to follow without specific guidelines. Thus, we see the world more in associations of ideas, and we tend to like data because it gives us tangible, specific points to populate our models of the world and a structure for linear thought.

That's why we often lack "common sense" - we can't generalize enough to make general rules about which line of ideas to follow logically in a novel situation. We have to account for all the data, which may not be possible. NTs/heteristics know which line of ideas to follow intuitively in a variety of situations. We on the other hand, are not actually non-linear (we tend to be very good at logic, which must follow a linear chain of argument), it's just that we have to have clearly defined terms and data to follow. If we do not, we just have a bunch of associations.

It can also be somewhere in between, a unique mix of linear thought and associations, which can be quite beneficial for outside the box thinking. If all you had were associations, you wouldn't be able to formulate a logical idea or be able to function very well in the world (I'm wondering if this may be what leads to the more extreme end of the spectrum - the data is so raw and specific that it stunts the ability to make sense of it, and so you never get to the point where you can use it to form a linear model of the world).

Thanks for the explanation. Would this way of thinking apply for example, to having a shower or brushing teeth, causing struggles there, if so, how?

It's applicable in the sense that, sometimes you can get lost in your head, so it's easy to get distracted and forget to do everyday stuff - which is why structure and routine is so important. We are juggling so many different thought patterns and associations, it's not always intuitive which one has priority at this moment, whether it's brushing your teeth or what not. Doesn't mean you can't do it, it just means it is more important to have an external explicit reminder until it becomes a habit. As you grow and learn, you internalize more and more daily life tasks. But there are always more to learn, so it's easy to be a step behind.

I tend towards visual/concept thinking myself. Though I can certainly make lists...
Might be why I sucked at math in grade & high school.

Sincerely,
Matthew

Does that model of cause ---> effect - thinking makes you able to predict how people react? I cannot predict how people will react in general to something (except that ice-cream or a new toy makes a child in general happy) and I wonder if it is a matter of non-linear thinking or being bad at "reading" people or anything else. Predicting people's reaction is a big problem for me and I feel very insecure because of that.

I tend to branch off and make associations and hop from idea to idea, even if they are not directly related. Particularly when i am not entirely focused on something. Its not completely chaotic, there are reasons why I hop and I make useful connections and identify patterns that way. It is definitely putting together a lot of irrelevant details to slowly build up to a bigger picture solution.

This does show up in my conversations and explanations. I quite liken this to mindmapping, which is becoming quite popular, but I tend to do this mentally. I guess on paper you start in the middle, then branch out, then back to the middle and branch out. Occasionally going back to add new details. I keep just jumping round the edges of the branches adding new details. So my questions tend to be all over the place. To the outsider it appears quite chaotic, but I think that way I never lose sight of the details and how they related to each other.

it's really like the way you might decorate a christmas tree, rather than building a tower.
The odd thing is that I can't get on with mindmapping on paper or on the computer. Give me lego or kids blocks and I build towers.

Jason

I can usually predict OK, but it's hard in real time. I get overwhelmed because I'm sorting out so much in my head. But I've learned enough about psychology that I can usually step back and examine the logic of relationships and behavior.



Yes, that is what it's like for me too.

I think one is the reason for the other. I guess because autism may mean that your thinking is non-linear, you try to put things in order because it is exhausting to have nothing substantial to think about.

I often feel that my way of thinking is pretty linear, but I assume it's more like... me trying to think in a linear way, but failing, because it may mean I only think one thing and cannot think of an alternative because it would mean I'd "come off the path" and forget what I'd been thinking a second before.

I did one of those tests that have been floating around here and one of them was about what "sex" your brain is - female or male - and I scored very good on abstraction. So... I wondered why I had such difficulty to perform Math in school because it is mostly about abstraction. How does that make sense?

My thinking is also very... visual and conceptual. If I am writing on here, for example, I do this in a conceptual way. If I had to think what each word would mean in my mother tongue, I would only get confused. Which is why my French is so bad. I try to make up sentences in French like I do in English, but it doesn't work, as my active vocabulary in French is so limited.

I think non-linear thinking derives from a lessened ability to focus, whether focus capabilities were never learned, could never be learned, or were disrupted during developmet; Whether it can be learned later or your surrounding environment, or internal environment (if food sensitivty-related, etc), will certainly be case-by-case. It's odd though, I can focus well in my head, though only when in deep thought - otherwise the outside world is too distracting and focus is difficult to impossible.

I've still not learned how to cope well. I get overwhelmed easily, though I hide it very well as well. It's not a fun way to live.

read this:

http://www.beelddenken.info/documenten/ ... liance.pdf