What are your thoughts on "political correctness"?
I was going to post the following comment in the "The world is confusing" thread, but I didn't want to derail it too much. I thought it was worth its own discussion thread.
As evidenced by certain comments in this thread, it also seems that they are very confused or misinformed about the motives that some people have for "being offended" or preferring neutral terminology. There seems to be this paranoia that people are preemptively changing terms in order to avert insensitivity, when in reality the reasons are grounded in logic and not emotion.
(E.g., why call a female firefighter a fireman? Why assume that someone celebrates Christmas by saying "Merry Christmas" when saying "Happy Holidays" covers more bases? Why use the term "gay" to refer to something that is bad?)
Those who prefer to brush off social and cultural issues without thinking very deeply about them do enjoy attacking the straw man that is "Political Correctness." I wish the term had never been coined.
I would call a female firefighter a firefighter because it's inaccurate to call her a "fireman", but in general, I don't think that political correctness is good. It's a type of deception. Using political correctness doesn't get rid of negative feelings toward someone or something. It just hides said feelings.
It's good to try to make people not think negatively about someone, but trying to do so by restricting language is ineffective and I think it creates resentment, which reinforces negative thoughts.
It's good to try to make people not think negatively about someone, but trying to do so by restricting language is ineffective and I think it creates resentment, which reinforces negative thoughts.
It is not at all incorrect to refer to both men and women as firemen. The word "fireman" includes both men and women.
Whether or not a person celebrates Christmas, Christmas is a recognized holiday in many parts of the world. I don't see anything wrong with saying Merry Christmas to anyone regardless of their religion.
Over the years, I have known plenty of people who are not at all Christian who have absolutely problem with wishing or being wished "Merry Christmas". I've even eaten Christmas Dinner with some.
Over the years, I have known plenty of people who are not at all Christian who have absolutely problem with wishing or being wished "Merry Christmas". I've even eaten Christmas Dinner with some.
Here, again, you mistake the motive. I do not wish people a "Happy Holidays" because I consider term the term "Merry Christmas" to be offensive or insensitive. I only say it when I do not know what the person in question celebrates. If I know for a fact that a person is a devout Christian and that Christmas is important to them, then I will say "Merry Christmas." If I see a person wearing a "I <3 Christmas" sweater, then I know what to say.
However, I see no reason to presume that a random stranger with no obvious inclinations celebrates Christmas. Thus, "Happy Holidays." It covers all possible bases, and I may learn that they celebrate something else (which they may not have been as eager to share with me if I had presumed otherwise, lest they be considered contrarian).
It's good to try to make people not think negatively about someone, but trying to do so by restricting language is ineffective and I think it creates resentment, which reinforces negative thoughts.
It is not at all incorrect to refer to both men and women as firemen. The word "fireman" includes both men and women.
That is circular reasoning. "Fireman" refers to the profession as a whole because the language was developed in a sexually imbalanced way. This is the very thing being argued.
It's good to try to make people not think negatively about someone, but trying to do so by restricting language is ineffective and I think it creates resentment, which reinforces negative thoughts.
It is not at all incorrect to refer to both men and women as firemen. The word "fireman" includes both men and women.
That is circular reasoning. "Fireman" refers to the profession as a whole because the language was developed in a sexually imbalanced way. This is the very thing being argued.
It's not even close to being circular reasoning. Why the word refers to both men and women is much less important than that it does refer to both.
To use your example of "Merry Christmas" versus "Happy holidays", when people say "Happy holidays" but wish they were saying "Merry Christmas" they're deceiving, because they're not expressing their true thoughts. They're repeating the thoughts that they've been told it is acceptable to have.
Political correctness is like trying to take a shortcut. Pretend that people are all respecting each other and getting along and maybe it will be true. But it's not true.
If people really did respect each other, it wouldn't be necessary to think about whether you're saying "Happy holidays" or "Merry Christmas" or call someone "gay" or not. I think it makes sense to try to always teach young children to respect each other, instead of teaching them to just hide their dislike of others.
It's good to try to make people not think negatively about someone, but trying to do so by restricting language is ineffective and I think it creates resentment, which reinforces negative thoughts.
It is not at all incorrect to refer to both men and women as firemen. The word "fireman" includes both men and women.
That is circular reasoning. "Fireman" refers to the profession as a whole because the language was developed in a sexually imbalanced way. This is the very thing being argued.
It's not even close to being circular reasoning. Why the word refers to both men and women is much less important than that it does refer to both.
It only refers to men.
Northeastern292
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Location: Brooklyn, NY/Catskills
I think no one has the right to not be offended. When people get offended I have an urge to offend them more. Trying to keep people from being offended is the same as trying to restrict other peoples' free speech. I don't like people who let other people know that they are offended, because that is the same as saying that they expect other people to change their behavior just to keep from feeling uncomfortable.
AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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Yes, I am willing to be polite. For example, if most Asian people prefer to be referred as Asian rather than more old-fashioned terms, I am willing to do that.
And we on the Spectrum also face these issues. The whole question with 'people first' language. I'm actually a loosey-goosey about this and like 'Aspie,' 'Spectrum,' maybe other terms. I really want nonspectrum people to understand that first and foremost being on the Asperger's-Autism Spectrum is about sensory issues and social issues (for many of us).
*I meant sensory issues and processing issues. Social issues come later.
**And I want stimming to be more matter-of-factly understood and more socially acceptable. I mean, quote-unquote 'normal' people stim, too (and no such thing as normal anyway and how boring the world if there were! ) But somehow the way a 'normal' person stims is viewed as more sociable acceptable.
Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 26 Feb 2013, 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At best, it's an attempt to raise people's awareness with a simple "good/bad" meme, because you can't expect a complicated explanation to catch on. It can work. At worst, though, it's a way for highly educated people (usually highly educated white women) to shut everyone else up. Yep, I fall into that category and try to avoid this behavior.
Political correctness has, in its most developed form, jargon of its own and is anything but easy to understand, and asking for clarification is a transgression in itself. I kid you not, I've seen groups of the above-mentioned highly educated white women use the "it's not my job to teach you" response (on someone else, not me) when asked a question about racism. This is a response that is understandable for someone who is part of the marginalized group in question; it might be reasonable for me to say "as a woman I am sick of explaining sexism and it isn't my duty to teach everyone before I can expect to be treated respectfully", but there is no reason for white people to say the same with regard to racism.
You also get privileged groups co-opting pc memes to get their way. Basically, political correctness has the same advantages and disadvantages all simplifications of a message do. Unfortunately ideas generally have to be reduced almost to primitive grunting before they catch on: "Good. Bad. Do. Don't. Yes. No". It also seems necessary for there to be rigid rules and jargon. Either you don't "get" it and find it absurd, or you do get it and suddenly everyone who doesn't is despicable.
Last edited by Nonperson on 26 Feb 2013, 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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