08 Aug 2014, 10:08 pm
09 Aug 2014, 12:14 am
09 Aug 2014, 12:33 am
Adonai, LORD, YHWH... 
when a name is said only once a year, by one person, it gets lost pretty damn quickly.
this also reminds me of an article i read last night.
it explains the name of Israel, but also talks about how arguing with God is actually permitted within Judaism. arguing with the mightiness of God is considered unthinkable in many other religions.
jewishjournal.com wrote:
The name of her religion, I told her, is Islam, which in Arabic means submission (to God). The name of the Jewish people is Israel, which in Hebrew means struggle with God. I?d rather struggle with God, I said, than only submit to God.
She thanked me and hung up. The answer apparently satisfied her.
Arguing/struggling with God is not only Jewishly permitted, it is central to the Torah and later Judaism. In this regard, as in others, the Torah is unique. In no other foundational religious text of which I am aware is arguing with God a religious expectation. The very first Jew, Abraham, argues with God, as does the greatest Jew, Moses. (It is worth noting that though Muslims consider Abraham their father as well, arguing with God has no place in the Quran or in normative Islam.)
It is difficult to overstate the importance of this Jewish concept. For one thing, it enabled Jews to believe in the importance of reason ? God Himself could be challenged on the basis of reason and morality; one does not have to suspend reason to be a believing Jew. Indeed, it assured Jews that belief in God was itself the apotheosis of reason. For another, it had profound psychological benefits to Jews. We do not have to squelch our questioning of, or even our anger at, God. One can be both religious and real. I will never forget making a shivah call on a Chabad rabbi who had suddenly lost his young wife. He looked at me and said in Yiddish, ?Mann tracht und Gott lacht? ? ?man plans and God laughs.? It is difficult to imagine an equally religious priest, minister or imam making such a statement. With regard to God, Judaism never abandoned reason, struggle and argument.
She thanked me and hung up. The answer apparently satisfied her.
Arguing/struggling with God is not only Jewishly permitted, it is central to the Torah and later Judaism. In this regard, as in others, the Torah is unique. In no other foundational religious text of which I am aware is arguing with God a religious expectation. The very first Jew, Abraham, argues with God, as does the greatest Jew, Moses. (It is worth noting that though Muslims consider Abraham their father as well, arguing with God has no place in the Quran or in normative Islam.)
It is difficult to overstate the importance of this Jewish concept. For one thing, it enabled Jews to believe in the importance of reason ? God Himself could be challenged on the basis of reason and morality; one does not have to suspend reason to be a believing Jew. Indeed, it assured Jews that belief in God was itself the apotheosis of reason. For another, it had profound psychological benefits to Jews. We do not have to squelch our questioning of, or even our anger at, God. One can be both religious and real. I will never forget making a shivah call on a Chabad rabbi who had suddenly lost his young wife. He looked at me and said in Yiddish, ?Mann tracht und Gott lacht? ? ?man plans and God laughs.? It is difficult to imagine an equally religious priest, minister or imam making such a statement. With regard to God, Judaism never abandoned reason, struggle and argument.
09 Aug 2014, 12:48 am
Kiprobalhato wrote:
Adonai, LORD, YHWH...
when a name is said only once a year, by one person, it gets lost pretty damn quickly.
this also reminds me of an article i read last night.
it explains the name of Israel, but also talks about how arguing with God is actually permitted within Judaism. arguing with the mightiness of God is considered unthinkable in many other religions.
when a name is said only once a year, by one person, it gets lost pretty damn quickly.
this also reminds me of an article i read last night.
it explains the name of Israel, but also talks about how arguing with God is actually permitted within Judaism. arguing with the mightiness of God is considered unthinkable in many other religions.
jewishjournal.com wrote:
The name of her religion, I told her, is Islam, which in Arabic means submission (to God). The name of the Jewish people is Israel, which in Hebrew means struggle with God. I?d rather struggle with God, I said, than only submit to God.
She thanked me and hung up. The answer apparently satisfied her.
Arguing/struggling with God is not only Jewishly permitted, it is central to the Torah and later Judaism. In this regard, as in others, the Torah is unique. In no other foundational religious text of which I am aware is arguing with God a religious expectation. The very first Jew, Abraham, argues with God, as does the greatest Jew, Moses. (It is worth noting that though Muslims consider Abraham their father as well, arguing with God has no place in the Quran or in normative Islam.)
It is difficult to overstate the importance of this Jewish concept. For one thing, it enabled Jews to believe in the importance of reason ? God Himself could be challenged on the basis of reason and morality; one does not have to suspend reason to be a believing Jew. Indeed, it assured Jews that belief in God was itself the apotheosis of reason. For another, it had profound psychological benefits to Jews. We do not have to squelch our questioning of, or even our anger at, God. One can be both religious and real. I will never forget making a shivah call on a Chabad rabbi who had suddenly lost his young wife. He looked at me and said in Yiddish, ?Mann tracht und Gott lacht? ? ?man plans and God laughs.? It is difficult to imagine an equally religious priest, minister or imam making such a statement. With regard to God, Judaism never abandoned reason, struggle and argument.
She thanked me and hung up. The answer apparently satisfied her.
Arguing/struggling with God is not only Jewishly permitted, it is central to the Torah and later Judaism. In this regard, as in others, the Torah is unique. In no other foundational religious text of which I am aware is arguing with God a religious expectation. The very first Jew, Abraham, argues with God, as does the greatest Jew, Moses. (It is worth noting that though Muslims consider Abraham their father as well, arguing with God has no place in the Quran or in normative Islam.)
It is difficult to overstate the importance of this Jewish concept. For one thing, it enabled Jews to believe in the importance of reason ? God Himself could be challenged on the basis of reason and morality; one does not have to suspend reason to be a believing Jew. Indeed, it assured Jews that belief in God was itself the apotheosis of reason. For another, it had profound psychological benefits to Jews. We do not have to squelch our questioning of, or even our anger at, God. One can be both religious and real. I will never forget making a shivah call on a Chabad rabbi who had suddenly lost his young wife. He looked at me and said in Yiddish, ?Mann tracht und Gott lacht? ? ?man plans and God laughs.? It is difficult to imagine an equally religious priest, minister or imam making such a statement. With regard to God, Judaism never abandoned reason, struggle and argument.
That's part of the reason the other faiths are so much more dominant: they compel unthinking obedience, whereas Judaism takes a different path
. I kind of forget that sometimes because it seems so natural that the ideas of God are beyond our comprehension, and thus it is impossible to have a perfect or literal interpretation of his word. Those who claim otherwise are merely narcissists. Arguing/ delineating the closest to the path of god from the chaos of real life is essential. What if you are blindly obedient to something that god abhors and has just been misinterpreted? Dreadful. Though, I suppose it is better to keep the peasants in line if you (a person) give an ultimatum and kill them if they disobey. Empires are built with black lines on a map: no room for grey areas.
09 Aug 2014, 4:02 am
09 Aug 2014, 5:44 am
09 Aug 2014, 6:30 am
naturalplastic wrote:
beneficii wrote:
We don't notice this in English, but I can notice it in Japanese.
Often, if a Japanese person addresses God/gods as 神様 (kamisama), which adds the very honorific suffix 様 (sama) to the word for God/gods 神 (kami), then they are probably not Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.
If, however, that person addresses God as 神よ (kami yo) with the よ (yo) suffix, which is a very direct, familiar way to address someone, then they probably are Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.
It's interesting that, in the Abrahamic religions, you are supposed to speak very plainly and directly to God and not waste your time with formalities or polite modes of speech.
Often, if a Japanese person addresses God/gods as 神様 (kamisama), which adds the very honorific suffix 様 (sama) to the word for God/gods 神 (kami), then they are probably not Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.
If, however, that person addresses God as 神よ (kami yo) with the よ (yo) suffix, which is a very direct, familiar way to address someone, then they probably are Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.
It's interesting that, in the Abrahamic religions, you are supposed to speak very plainly and directly to God and not waste your time with formalities or polite modes of speech.
This raises a question.
In most European languages there are two kinds of "you": the familiar, and the formal.
English used to be that way as well, but we ditched the informal "thou" some centuries back and now just call everyone "you"(which used to be reserved for formal, or for addressing groups). So we address God as "you" in prayers or whatever.
But by which pronoun do Christians in the rest of Europe, and in Latin America, address God ? The formal? Or the informal?
Do Spanish speakers address god as "tu" (informal), or as "usted" (formal)?
Does anyone know?
My guess that it would be "usted" because God "outranks" you, and you wanna sound humble when you ask for something from him.
Interesting question. I checked for different translations of Our Father (on wikipedia), and it seems to vary by language. I'm Dutch, and in Dutch they use the formal (u, or sometimes U instead of jij/je). Also, God is often referred to as simly as God or de Heer (the Lord). The formal adress is also often used for people, some people even use the formal form for their parents (which is weird to me). I think we should get rid of it because it's confusing. I often see people accidentally switch between formal and informal and back again during the same conversation, which is just awkward.
For other languages: I looked at some translations on the wiki page which was easy since all the different language wikipedias are linked on the left. So far (I'm not an expert) this is what I found:
Spanish: mostly informal I think (long time since I had Spanish in school)
French: informal
German: informal
Dutch: formal
How the formal and informal are used differs per language, and sometimes even per region. Maybe some prefer the informal because the formal implies a certain distance to the other person. When you use the formal form on a friend it implies he is a stranger. Anyway, here is are the German and French versions from the Church of Pater Noster in Jerusalem (Dein and ton seem to be informal):
09 Aug 2014, 6:47 am
09 Aug 2014, 7:11 am
Interesting.
In all fairness English speakers also usually say "our lord" - or "our father" as well. Its rare (but it must of necessity happen now and then) that English speaking prayer sayers call God "you".
Word orders differ slightly -so its hard for a nonlinguist to compare those engraved prayers to English.
I digress: but Im reminded of a Sociology teacher I had in highschool who said "I like the Spanish word for "pig" better than the English word because "gordo" sounds like something big and fat. But "pig" sounds like a little thing." When I told mom what the teacher said my mom told me "'gordo' means 'fat'. It doesnt mean 'pig'!" .
Since I happen to be taking Spanish at the time it dawned on me that the lady teacher heard someone say "cochino gordo" (fat pig), and because she didnt know that in Spanish the adjective comes AFTER the noun (and not before it as in English) she plugged the meanings into the wrong words. Understandable mistake for most folks. But for a teacher its kinda irksome to make that kinda mistake. Interestingly: 'cochino' has a similar pinched nasal sound that 'pig' has - invoking a pinched small thing as its meaning (but gordo does kinda sound like what it means).
I know this has nothing to do with the subject, but Ive been waiting since highschool for an excuse to vent about it! Lol! 
09 Aug 2014, 2:19 pm
09 Aug 2014, 6:45 pm
10 Aug 2014, 1:26 am
10 Aug 2014, 1:44 am
10 Aug 2014, 7:39 pm
10 Aug 2014, 9:14 pm
11 Aug 2014, 7:49 am
