Parenthood article compares grieving over ASto grieving over

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PlainsAspie
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11 Oct 2014, 12:00 pm

death
http://www.nbc.com/parenthood/blog/the- ... iting-room

I personally found that offensive. AS children may have brains wired differently, think differently, have different strengths and weaknesses, but they are still unique living human beings. Without AS, my personality would be completely different to the point that my body would be the only thing that stayed the same. Wanting an AS child to overcome challenges is one thing, wanting them to be someone else is another.



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11 Oct 2014, 3:26 pm

Roy Q. Sanders, is a very ablelist psych. I posted his article where he said unlike "real" autistics the Hank character is a spoiled brat. He also said that is one of the reasons the DSM 5 killed Aspergers was because of this negative feeling towered our part of the spectrum. This is the mentality we are up against. That is why I do not obsess over some troll on an internet forum. That there are so many professionals both generalists and childhood autism specialists that feel that way is what scares me. Just reading the forums here and seeing how many people who's autism has been invalidated add some validation to my feeling. Having a person with that professional degree say that to can be devastating and can really set you back. It is my feeling that autistics do tend to give more credence to a licensed professionals then NT's do.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 11 Oct 2014, 9:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

PlainsAspie
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11 Oct 2014, 3:36 pm

I believe he's also the one who said that Hank couldn't be autistic because he asked his daughter to be agree to be Max's girlfriend to spare his feelings, which shows empathy, ergo, no AS. I don't think it was a good idea to tell her that in this case, but I have lied to protect people's feelings. I'm pretty sure I'm still autistic



PlainsAspie
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12 Oct 2014, 5:10 pm

I feel sorry for his kid and his patients



themanfromuranus
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13 Oct 2014, 12:45 am

this article is disgustingly offensive, the swines who wrote that should be ashamed.

excuse me, we are not dead, ill, broken or less than, our blood isn't less red than others, just because that kind of hurtful propaganda- many autists are on disability, or in community livings. we are as human as others, we feel we bleed we hurt, we deserve the same love and respect as anybody else , when i was younger and less cabable as of today, ive been told milions of times that my life is worthless and i shouldn't even be born , by teachers, peers , therapists who made things worse , but now i am strong and capable, i am soon will be in the IDF , so ha autism$peaks . every one of us can succeed, so why grieve that we are also living in this world ?,



Buzz201
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14 Oct 2014, 12:38 pm

I see nothing wrong with the article, I would imagine most parents of autistic children go through a phase of wishing they had a "normal" neurotypical child and being upset about the fact they don't. Maybe that's wrong, maybe that isn't, but Parenthood is a drama it can play events how it chooses, it's not under any obligation to present Asperger's in an idealised positive manner, and nor should it be.



PlainsAspie
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14 Oct 2014, 1:30 pm

Buzz201 wrote:
I see nothing wrong with the article, I would imagine most parents of autistic children go through a phase of wishing they had a "normal" neurotypical child and being upset about the fact they don't. Maybe that's wrong, maybe that isn't, but Parenthood is a drama it can play events how it chooses, it's not under any obligation to present Asperger's in an idealised positive manner, and nor should it be.


They have the right to portray how they want and we have a right to criticize it



Buzz201
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14 Oct 2014, 5:34 pm

PlainsAspie wrote:
Buzz201 wrote:
I see nothing wrong with the article, I would imagine most parents of autistic children go through a phase of wishing they had a "normal" neurotypical child and being upset about the fact they don't. Maybe that's wrong, maybe that isn't, but Parenthood is a drama it can play events how it chooses, it's not under any obligation to present Asperger's in an idealised positive manner, and nor should it be.


They have the right to portray how they want and we have a right to criticize it


Shows should be judged on their objectives, you wouldn't criticise a sitcom for not being scary enough, so why should Parenthood be criticised for attempting realism? I think it's wrong to criticise the show because it's doesn't reflect your imagined utopia of how autistic people should be treated, because that's not what the show is trying to do. To me that's like bemoaning a microwave peperoni pizza for not tasting like roast chicken...



PlainsAspie
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14 Oct 2014, 6:05 pm

Buzz201 wrote:
PlainsAspie wrote:
Buzz201 wrote:
I see nothing wrong with the article, I would imagine most parents of autistic children go through a phase of wishing they had a "normal" neurotypical child and being upset about the fact they don't. Maybe that's wrong, maybe that isn't, but Parenthood is a drama it can play events how it chooses, it's not under any obligation to present Asperger's in an idealised positive manner, and nor should it be.


They have the right to portray how they want and we have a right to criticize it


Shows should be judged on their objectives, you wouldn't criticise a sitcom for not being scary enough, so why should Parenthood be criticised for attempting realism? I think it's wrong to criticise the show because it's doesn't reflect your imagined utopia of how autistic people should be treated, because that's not what the show is trying to do. To me that's like bemoaning a microwave peperoni pizza for not tasting like roast chicken...


I'm sure there are parents like that, but there's also parents who accept their kids the way they are. It wouldn't be unrealistic if Max was accepted and embraced.



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14 Oct 2014, 6:55 pm

Buzz201 wrote:
Shows should be judged on their objectives, you wouldn't criticise a sitcom for not being scary enough, so why should Parenthood be criticised for attempting realism? I think it's wrong to criticise the show because it's doesn't reflect your imagined utopia of how autistic people should be treated, because that's not what the show is trying to do. To me that's like bemoaning a microwave peperoni pizza for not tasting like roast chicken...


Pizza not tasting like roast chicken; I don't think you understand what's going on. The people that were involved with its production, they don't consider AS people as human beings, but rather, things that have replaced (in their eyes) a healthy neurotypical child. It's hateful bigotry that minimises and devalues our lives and the worth of AS people, it's also straight out of changeling mythology. But hey, don't criticise, pizza and chicken right.



Buzz201
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15 Oct 2014, 10:59 am

Moromillas wrote:
Buzz201 wrote:
Shows should be judged on their objectives, you wouldn't criticise a sitcom for not being scary enough, so why should Parenthood be criticised for attempting realism? I think it's wrong to criticise the show because it's doesn't reflect your imagined utopia of how autistic people should be treated, because that's not what the show is trying to do. To me that's like bemoaning a microwave peperoni pizza for not tasting like roast chicken...


Pizza not tasting like roast chicken; I don't think you understand what's going on. The people that were involved with its production, they don't consider AS people as human beings, but rather, things that have replaced (in their eyes) a healthy neurotypical child. It's hateful bigotry that minimises and devalues our lives and the worth of AS people, it's also straight out of changeling mythology. But hey, don't criticise, pizza and chicken right.


I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how people in the real world see autistic people, they don't see it as something to be proud of, they see it as a flaw, something that makes you less of a person than them, and it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of parents behaved and thought like that.

Obviously in an ideal world people wouldn't think like that, but we don't live in an ideal world, and a lot more problems that are going to be solved ahead of autistic rights. As far as I can see, Parenthood is just reflecting the real world.



PlainsAspie
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15 Oct 2014, 4:33 pm

This article isn't just acknowledging that attitude, it's implicitly celebrating it.



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15 Oct 2014, 4:34 pm

I don't think that link took me to the right article, but I want to talk about the process of grieving from a parental perspective. I have used that exact phrase with parents, that they need to let themselves grieve.

I think you all misunderstand what that means and why it needs to happen.

First of all, parents often don't understand why they have negative feelings when their child is diagnosed. They know, intellectually, everything you all have pointed out. And they are relieved to have a key to how their child thinks. So why is there a cloud?

Because the world encourages you to create this false image of your child, and it starts before they are even born. People talk about the traits you have that will be passed on to your child, and they read into every tiny little thing your child does from the moment he does (or does not) start kicking in the womb. It is CONSTANT. Intellectually, you may discard all that, but some of it seeps in. You start viewing your hypomobile infant as a future Olympic gymnast. You start viewing your doesn't-seem-to-need-sleep toddler as a future president. And so on. Before long, you have a mixed up view of who your child might someday be that has been fed into by EVERYONE.

Most parents get 18 slow years to allow all that to crumble and slowly be replaced with the proper image of who the child actually is.

But when you get a diagnosis? ONE WORD. One second. And the entire thing is collapsed. My son's flexibility? It wasn't a sign of a future gymnast, but a disability that will keep him from being able to handwrite comfortably. And so on. So many images of who he was going to grow up to be crashed in one second.

And none of it changed him or who he was or how much I loved and admired him. But it changed my visions for the future, my idea of who he was going to grow up to be.

The loss of that false image takes time to adjust to. You know its false; you don't care about it intellectually; you know the old dreams will be replaced with better ones; but you discover that emotionally things are a little different. You feel the loss intensely.

And, so, a parent needs to grieve. Not the loss of the child, but the loss of the ridiculous dreams the world had encouraged them to build around the child. The fact that those dreams were always ridiculous doesn't change the fact that the loss is real and is felt.


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PlainsAspie
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15 Oct 2014, 4:46 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
I don't think that link took me to the right article, but I want to talk about the process of grieving from a parental perspective. I have used that exact phrase with parents, that they need to let themselves grieve.

I think you all misunderstand what that means and why it needs to happen.

First of all, parents often don't understand why they have negative feelings when their child is diagnosed. They know, intellectually, everything you all have pointed out. And they are relieved to have a key to how their child thinks. So why is there a cloud?

Because the world encourages you to create this false image of your child, and it starts before they are even born. People talk about the traits you have that will be passed on to your child, and they read into every tiny little thing your child does from the moment he does (or does not) start kicking in the womb. It is CONSTANT. Intellectually, you may discard all that, but some of it seeps in. You start viewing your hypomobile infant as a future Olympic gymnast. You start viewing your doesn't-seem-to-need-sleep toddler as a future president. And so on. Before long, you have a mixed up view of who your child might someday be that has been fed into by EVERYONE.

Most parents get 18 slow years to allow all that to crumble and slowly be replaced with the proper image of who the child actually is.

But when you get a diagnosis? ONE WORD. One second. And the entire thing is collapsed. My son's flexibility? It wasn't a sign of a future gymnast, but a disability that will keep him from being able to handwrite comfortably. And so on. So many images of who he was going to grow up to be crashed in one second.

And none of it changed him or who he was or how much I loved and admired him. But it changed my visions for the future, my idea of who he was going to grow up to be.

The loss of that false image takes time to adjust to. You know its false; you don't care about it intellectually; you know the old dreams will be replaced with better ones; but you discover that emotionally things are a little different. You feel the loss intensely.

And, so, a parent needs to grieve. Not the loss of the child, but the loss of the ridiculous dreams the world had encouraged them to build around the child. The fact that those dreams were always ridiculous doesn't change the fact that the loss is real and is felt.


That's understandable, but I'd be willing to shrug what he said off as just a poor choice of words if I hadn't read all his other articles that show his ignorant attitudes.



evilreligion
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15 Oct 2014, 5:19 pm

As the parent of an autistic child I can tell you that you do go through something like a grieving process. This is mainly because for most parents they only become autism aware when they have an autistic kid. Up until that point even well educated, liberal minded and accepting people are pretty ignorant of autism. Most experience and "knowledge" of autism up to that point is through TV documentaries and having watched Rainman. This means that when it happens its scary and terrifying. Autism is unambiguously seen as a very bad thing. It hurts, it makes you cry, you are scared, stressed out, you don't know what to do and you get angry as to how this terrible thing can happen to you and your child.

But then you educate yourself. And the first bits you learn scare you more. You learn that only 15% of adults with autism have a full time job. That only 30% of people with autism become financially independent of their parents. You learn that very few marry or have kids. That many suffer from depression and anxiety issues. That most get bullied. And it scares the s**t out of you. You cry for yourself and you son. You learn there is nothing you can do about it, there is no "cure", no effective treatment. You are stuck with this thing. The future you thought you had now looks bleak. The son you thought you had is gone. And yes you grieve.

But then you continue reading and you begin to understand more. You begin to see how your child operates, You begin to see that there are strengths as well as weaknesses. You begin to see that there is great beauty in the mind of an autistic child. A beauty that is not present in neurotypical children. You see that most problems he will face are nothing to do with the autism and everything to do with the prejudices of the world. And the parent lion in you roars that you will not allow the world to harm your beautiful boy in this way. And you curse yourself for having had those predjudices yourself. You begin to see that despite what you had drummed into you through the depressing documentaries full of autistic meltdowns, tantrums and violent outbursts that this is not actually bad at all. Its just different and in many respects its quiet wonderful. Sure there will be some things that are hard but other things will be easier. You begin to notice how independent and non clingy your child is. How he does not make a fuss about nothing like other kids do. How he is completely honest and not deceitful like other kids. How he is a constant source of laughter, how honoured you feel when you make those connections and get into his world. Most kids are attention whores for their parents, they are easy, but with your kid you need to earn it and its so much more worthwhile when you do.

After this you begin to feel guilty for ever having thought the things you did. But then you accept that you are just a human being and you were only acting on the false information you had. It was not your fault you thought autism was all bad. It was not your fault that you grieved for your lost son. You were only acting in accordance with the info you had at the time. That information was wrong but you didn't know that at the time and you really wished you did. So then you resolve to do your bit to change the world, to educate, to pass on what you have learned and to try to ensure that more people understand this whole autism thing. You don't want other parents to have to go through the pain you did, and you know that if only they knew what you knew now that the whole autism thing would just be so much easier for them. So you do what you can to educate in your own way. You blog, you post, you support other families and you generally get the autism positive message out there

So anyway that's where I am at now.

I don't think this article is offensive in any way its just realistic. Parents go through a tough few years when they first find out, mainly because they start in a place of ignorant fear. Its not their fault we can only act on the information we have. We need to change that information but that'f going to take times. So sadly many parents to come will grieve for their lost sons and daughters. Don't blame them, don;t judge them, pity them. They are victims of the societies prejudiced views nearly as much as the people with autism. But once they come through it and "see the light" you can bet your boots that they will be your strongest allies.



PlainsAspie
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15 Oct 2014, 5:52 pm

evilreligion wrote:
I don't think this article is offensive in any way its just realistic.



evilreligion wrote:
So sadly many parents to come will grieve for their lost sons and daughters. Don't blame them, don;t judge them, pity them.


I'm not trying to judge you, at the same time please don't tell autistic people they are wrong for being offended by it and please do not tell what is and isn't offensive to us.