toe walkers?

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I'm curious as to how many kids toe-walked. Mine never did. He skips and shuffles and runs--but never toe-walking.

I've read that this is a common autistic trait. Yet, interestingly, the more I observe and ponder the topic, the toe-walkers I've observed don't seem to be on the spectrum at all. Is toe walking related to something else? Can you be a toe-walker and not be on the spectrum? I've been on the look out (can't help out) because I'm so immersed in autism related issues.

I have worked with autistic kids in the past, and we have a few classic autistic fellows in my high school, one walks in a particular manner--dignified almost. One runs down the hall, unexpectedly, smiling. So, what's up with the toe-walking?

Is there some confusion with toe-walking and autism? I don't recall reading this as part of the criteria--uncoordinated, poor muscle tone possibly-- but no toe-walking.

Am I onto something?

equinn

I've run into countless people who said their kids or relatives (on the spectrum) were toe-walkers. My son was and I don't remember when he stopped. It was gradual somewhere after 3 or 4 years of age.
My husband is flat-footed and I'm pigeon-toed (my feet go inward). My son now runs with a pigeon-toed effect.
Back home (in California) it was associated with more "severe autism".
I did know a boy who was a genius and was both flat-footed and a toe walker. It was associated with something medical though. I never heard autism or Asperger's brought up in regards to him. And he recently died of terminal illness. (my age)

I am a toe walker...I did it when I was little and i never stopped...have tried..but can't...I go up on my toes when i am nervous or overstimulated..or anytime at all really..I am not diagnosed with AS....but I am pretty sure I must be some place on the spectrum and I have spent my whole life with neurological and developmental difficulties...many of which seem to be um..congenital.....unless you can do that too and still somehow not be on the spectrum...

Toe walking has also been related to cerebral palsy and um..just being born with your achilles tendons too short.

Mine are tight...but not too short...with alot of work I can stretch them out so that it does not hurt to falk for extended lenghts of time just flat-footed...and I always wear very flat shoes.

my five year old rarely ever walks on his foot.... always has walked on toes but if i remind him he stops UNLESS he is in high stress mode..... yeah toe walking has got to be some form of sensory thing i thnk anyway.... he seems to be eased by stuff like that anything with pressure(hugs, massages, loves for u to cover him up with stuffed animals,blankets whatever)

When I'm super hyped up, I still do it.

My daughter never did, but my son does when very excited.

I still do it.
And I'm 16.

Toe walking and holding hands up in the air for balance is a very common developmental behavior when babies are learning to walk. The problem is that some children do it when they are well beyond the age of learning to walk. They are not still learning to walk- they do it for sensory reasons, because they cannot tolerate the sensation of certain textures on their feet, because they are hyper-sensitive to touch, or tactile defensive.

Since sensory issues present themselves differently in every child - some are hyper-sensitive to certain senses while others are hypo-sensitive- not every child with sensory issues or ASDs will do the same things. My son is HYPO-sensitive to proprioceptive input, so he wouldn't feel much of the things that other kids feel- prickly grass, sand, even cuts on the feet won't bother him, he broke his leg and hardly cried for about 5 minutes, pulled his own cast off the first night he had it on. He is the opposite of a toe-walker. You can tell if they are hypo-sensitive because they are very, very flexible in the joints, which is called hypotonia. His nervous system is too relaxed, so his muscles never fully tighten. The messages to and from the brain and muscles are not getting through. They are described as "floppy babies." I think this is the cause of the stereotypical "clumsy" aspie.

A toe-walker's nervous system is too tight, the muscles never get a chance to relax before the senses are stimulated again by the slightest feeling or movement. This explains why they start toe-walking more when over-stimulated. The brain becomes less organized and less able to integrate the input. Floppy kids will become more floppy.

A great book to read about this is Sensory Integration and the Child by Jane Ayers *2005 edition*

Those descriptions completely contradict my son's experience. My son had the over-flexible joints and the toe-walking. He wasn't that "floppy baby" either.

Well, Kim, you also have to tell us whether your son has aspergers or full blown autism. I wasn't a floppy baby either, but I have asperger's. I also have over flexible joints. But I think that's genetic.

In response to the toe walking thing, I only toe walk when I'm hyper or trying to make absolutely no sound (a trait that gets worse with stress).

I do know one thing for sure; a strange "gait" is usually associated with aspergers. Maybe that's what you read about?

my son was more floppy, I suppose.

He runs barefoot over everything and doesn't complain--wood chips, shells, rocks etc.

He bounces off walls, bangs himself into couch etc. but has never walked on his toes.

He walks with one foot inward (has since he was little).

I guess my point being--I don't think the physical coordination/characteristics should be included in description of a child with ASD's. It seems almost ridiculous.

There are many nt kids that are uncoordinated, can't tie their shoes and have sensory issues that are NOT autistic or anywhere on the spectrum.

More imporantly, the preseverating, odd fixations, difficulty transitioning, and other atypical behaviors should be the main markers.

Even Hans Asperger did not include these physical characteristics in his description of a child with aspergers.

I think in our modern nterpretation of ASD's, we have incoorperated these physical traits into the criteria. Now, we have parents going into a full fledge panic if their child flaps his hands inexcitement or walks on his toes.

On Autism Speaks, if you watch those videos, the child who continued to spin the bowls and cups was, in my opinion, the most obviously autistic. These are more important signs--eye contact, intense focus, internally preoccupied without a need for external praise or attention--the way a child walks or balances on a beam is inconsequential and shouldn't be considered--imo. The video of the young two-year old dancing on her toes was not, as far as I'm concerned, a clear indicator that she was autistic. Maybe, she did have other symptoms, but I don't think they should have showed this particular scene as an indicator of autism. I've known quitte a few toe-walkers that never had the other autistic traits and functioned in the mainstream quite well.

ASD children, despite the variance, all have something in common--this is their inablity to march in step. It is apparent, most times, and they are flagged by teachers/staff. How they march--on toes, on flat feet, spinning, somersaulting, hopping--should not be considered part of the criteria.

sorry dont know what im doing on this thing.... does that book tell u how to help ..... i have read a couple of books on it but so far i havent found a key that clicks with him to help him with it.... i understand why just not how to help him i have tried massages and joint compressions and squishy balls and hopper balls and tumblers and obstacle courses to run the energy out but i am not quite hitting on anything that he benefits from.... weighted blankets didnt help either.... btw that was very helpful.... i am so grateful for this website..... it helps me when everyone else is saying there is nothing amiss wiht my son he is just spoiled or beligerent i get on here and realize that no i am not crazy or making things up

My son is autistic, not Asperger's. The kids in the group I was in were also autistic. We didn't have any parents that had Aspie kids in the group. This was a support club for parents of autistics in Northern Ca.

I have heard the "clumsiness' is more associated with Asperger's. My son has great gross motor skills (climbing, balance, running, riding a bike) but lacks finesse in fine motor skills (writing with a pencil, penmanship, using utensils). He's never qualified for OT though. One therapist will see him and recommend an OT eval and the OT will come and say, "no".

Back to the toe-walking. I don't know why he did it. It seemed more like a developmental thing rather than sensory one. I never sought help to stop him from doing it, he just stopped eventually. I don't even know when. We never sought to stop a lot of "autistic behaviors" because we believe they are natural. We dealt mostly with communication. The more we are able to communicate, the other things seem to drop. (stimming, sensory seeking, tantrums, meltdowns, eye avoidance)
The thing is life is stressfull and he'll probably have to fall back on them some time. We didn't want to train it out of him.
I guess I'm at a loss when Aspies do all the same things when they had speech all along.

Come to think of though, I have met toe-walkers who were NT....at least i assumed they were...

but as far as i am concerned..my own toe walking really seems to play in with all my sensory and motor issues which have led me to believe that I am on the spectrum...and I can only assume that if I was not on the spectrum, then I would not have so much to relate to on WP to compell me to post here as often as I do. I don't recall even realising that I was a toe-walker till i was in grade school and started getting picked on for it....(and everything else that seemed to be wrong with me)

I was also a late-shoe tier and even when I finally learned I was not very good and thus wound up with velcro shoes most of the time...

I was also very oblivious about clothes until I was much older.

I guess my point is that sensory and motor issues should not be the deciding factor and maybe not even considered. I wonder how many people believe/think/suspect they or someone else is autistic or on the spectrum due to toe-walking and sensory issues?

This becomes problematic for a number of reasons. First, let's consider the which came first the chicken or the egg puzzle. If a child has sensory issues and toe-walking, the parent becomes suspicious, starts researching autism and ASD's, starts to see behaviors that might not be there. This leads to evaluations and lo and behold the child has pdd-nos, or Asperger's Syndrome-- a misdiagnosis. I do think this is happening more frequently today.

Just because a child is awkward, uncoordinated and doesn't have many friends doesn't mean they are on the spectrum.

Parents should be more alert to these items and not just one or two but in combination:
Is the child fixated on odd objects from a young age?
Does the child have trouble with transitions?
Does the child have difficulty understanding emotions?
Does the child prefer being internally occupied (in his/her head)?
Does the child seem to avoid eye gaze, seeking out praise, connecting with kids or adults unless they have an object of interest?
Does the child love to talk about his/her interest but not interested in what someone else has to say?

Hans Asperger said that he could detect a child with aspergers after just a few moments--in their mannerisms, their speech, their particular gestures. He never mentioned toe-walking that I recall.

toe walking and motor skills are irrelevant, or should be.

These are the important questions. I do think it starts at a young age, too. Maybe a child could be uncoordinated and have some physcial issues that could lead to a more difficult life with fewer friends due to self-esteem problems and lack of confidence. Yet, this doesn't mean an ASD. This child could be NT. We need to be careful how we define the characteristics of autism related disorders.