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Aspie_Chav
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Why do serial killers kill themselves Reply with quote

Why do serial killers kill themselves after kill everyone else.
You better make this logical. I am sure you can work it out.
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psych
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because to commit the perfect crime you must eliminate ALL witnesses.
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ed
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) to avoid paying the consequences.

2) The more likely reason is one where you have to look at the question from the other end: if you've already decided to kill yourself, and am certain, then you get a "free hit" on anyone you choose before you do it; you can't punish a dead man.
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nominalist
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do serial killers kill themselves Reply with quote

Aspie_Chav wrote:
Why do serial killers kill themselves after kill everyone else.
You better make this logical. I am sure you can work it out.


Do you mean mass murderers or serial killers?

Many mass murderers seem to kill themselves. However, mass murder is a time-specific event. It would make sense that the anger which would, in the moment, drive them to commit mass murder might also lead to suicide.

On the other hand, I cannot think of many serial killers who have committed suicide.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do serial killers kill themselves Reply with quote

nominalist wrote:
Do you mean mass murderers or serial killers?


Right... I took that as "mass murderers", and I imagine Aspie_Chav meant that.
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monty
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because they are consumed by rage, anger and hatred. Such destructive emotions are difficult to control, and they lead to a variety of irrational behavior.
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Aspie_Chav
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why donít even logical thinkers get it  Clue all human behaviour comes under the laws of evolution.


HOWever, one of you are closer the others.
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alex
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

usually it's only spree killers who also off themselves.
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nominalist
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aspie_Chav wrote:
Why donít even logical thinkers get it  Clue all human behaviour comes under the laws of evolution.


As a sociologist, I do not subscribe to biological determinism. Evolutionary processes can explain some, but certainly not all, human behavior.
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monty
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the long run, evolution might reduce the percent of people who have brains that are predisposed to murder/suicide.

But if one such person kills many others before killing himself, then no benefit to the group occurs. Mass murders are not merely taking themselves out of the gene pool.

The idea that evolution is the guiding principle ignores the fact that a genetic predispostion to rage, depression and suicide may or may not be expressed, depending on the environment. If a social network provides support, such individuals might cope and lead a normal life. If a person is in an environment where such mental disorders are detected and treated, a tragicl outcome could have been prevented. In cultures where violence is glorified, such dramatic acts may be more common.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking here as someone that finds serial killers and mass murders interesting (don't ask), I would say that serial killers rarely top themselves before they are caught (offhand I cannot think of one), however many will commit suicide once they are in custody to avoid the consequences (Harold Shipman as an example).

Most mass murders, the people doing the shooting have normally decided to end their own life anyway because they are feeling down through bullying or the "system" in general. The Columbine school massacre is a good example of this. They knew before they even went into the school they were both going to die, they just want to take down as many people as possible that have made their lives hell before they go.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they just like it so much that they want the empirical experience themselves? That or being too good at it to get caught just drives them crazy so it ends up being suicide out of sheer frustration.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, technically we don't know for sure, but there are a lot of theories afloat. Since they off themselves, nobody has ever been able to do a psychoanalysis on them. White middle-class spree killings and murder/suicides have become the new wave in the past few years (especially in schools).
Actually they really started piling up in frequency around 1997. But back then, there was no suicide involved. 1998 was when the last recent school shooting to happen without suicide. That was Kip Kinkel in Springfield, OR (The town right next to mine, actually). He murdered his parents the night before he went to his high school, where he killed 2 and injured 25.
Even though Kip Kinkel never committed suicide, there are some things about him that have brought speculation on why people do these school shootings, spree killings and murder suicides. The big one is a major event that happens not long before (The Omaha shooter had 2: Losing his job and girlfriend). Kip Kinkel was expelled the day before his shooting. Depression and anti-depressants is another thing (though anti-depressants didn't come into play until the next one). He was also always interested in guns, and he had very strict parents. Are these the only possible reasons? Probably not.
This didn't get nearly as much news coverage as the next shooting on the list, which didn't even happen until 11 months later. That one was the infamous Columbine.
They were supposedly social rejects for the most part (which seems to be a stark commonality). They also planned the shooting (which is also common among a good majority). Eric Harris was also an extremely angry person, as was shown on his online blog. He also took the antidepressant Luvox, which started the debate about antidepressants' effects on younger people. He started drawing up a hit list and collecting guns long before the shooting took place. Harris even went to a psychologist for about a year (which obviously didn't work). He and Klebold carried out the shooting just 3 days after their senior prom, and not too long after Harris was turned down from joining the military because of his perscription for Luvox (the major bad event).

So, I think it's because of any number of these reasons: Anti-depressants and depression, interest in violence, being ostracized by society/bullying, a major bad event (kind of the straw that breaks the camel's back), bad relationships with parents. (Some people blamed violent video games and angry music for Columbine, which I thinnk is ridiculous and unsupported)
It seems to be something akin to feeling that society has failed you, and at the same time you've failed yourself, so you want to get revenge on society, and afterwards end your mental suffering once and for all.
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monty
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The anti-depressant thing is interesting. Some doctors talk about how anti-depressants can give a depressed person enough energy to kill themselves. I think a better explanation is that SSRIs can initially cause disruption or agitation ... it takes a few weeks for the brain to adjust, and until then, there is not only a lack of anti-depressant effect, but also an agitation that can make negative emotions worse. Many doctors now give a short term prescription of xanax or some other tranquilizer for the first month to reduce the initial effects.

Also, since this whole notion that lifting the depression might make kids kill themselves (huh?) got started, far fewer kids have gotten anti-depressants, and suicide among young people has increased.

Violent music, movies and video games? Most people can separate fantasy from reality. A small percent cannot, and such entertainment may change the way they think.
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Cyanide
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

monty wrote:

Violent music, movies and video games? Most people can separate fantasy from reality. A small percent cannot, and such entertainment may change the way they think.


I don't think it really changes the way they think. I think violent people just tend to be drawn to those sort of things. So I don't think violent media causes violence, but that being drawn to violent media is just a sign of possible violent thoughts.
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