PAS, Parental Alienation Syndrome

Page 1 of 2 [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

02 Jan 2008, 11:45 pm

As some of you know, My Ex is trying to strip me totally out of our child's life.
The more she tries to Alienate me from our child, the worse it is for him.

She does not care.
=================================================
Perhaps some of these issues should be addressed in court?

PAS <-Link

:evil:
(((((Any attempt at alienating the children from the other parent should ))))))
(((((be seen as a direct and willful violation of one of the prime duties of))))))
(((((parenthood.)))))
:evil:

Although parental alienation syndrome (PAS) is a familiar term, there is still a great deal of confusion and unclarity about its nature, dimensions, and, therefore, its detection.(1) Its presence, however, is unmistakable. In a longitudinal study of 700 "high conflict" divorce cases followed over 12 years, it was concluded that elements of PAS are present in the vast majority of the samples.(2) Diagnosis of PAS is reserved for mental health professionals who come to the court in the form of expert witnesses. Diagnostic hallmarks usually are couched in clinical terms that remain vague and open to interpretation and, therefore. susceptible to argument pro and con by opposing experts. The phenomenon of one parent turning the child against the other parent is not a complicated concept, but historically it has been difficult to identify clearly. Consequently, cases involving PAS are heavily litigated, filled with accusations and counter accusations, and thus leave the court with an endless search for details that eventually evaporate into nothing other than rank hearsay. It is our experience that the PAS phenomenon leaves a trail that can be identified more effectively by removing the accusation hysteria, and looking ahead in another positive direction.

For the purpose of this article the authors are assuming a fair degree of familiarity with parental alienation syndrome on the part of the reader.(3) There are many good writings on PAS which the reader may wish to consult now or in the future for general information. Our focus here is much more narrow. Specifically, the goal is twofold. First we will describe four very specific criteria that can be used to identify potential PAS. In most instances, these criteria can be identified through the facts of the case, but also can be revealed by deposition or court testimony. Secondly, we wish to introduce the concept of "attempted" PAS; that is when the criteria of PAS are present, but the child is not successfully alienated from the absent parent. This phenomenon is still quite harmful and the fact of children not being alienated should not be viewed as neutral by the court.
Any attempt at alienating the children from the other parent should be seen as a direct and willful violation of one of the prime duties of parenthood.


The criteria described below are fairly easy to identify separate and apart from the court file. When there is uncertainty about any of them, these criteria can be used to guide the attorney in the deposing of witnesses as well as in their examination in court.

Criteria I: Access and Contact Blocking

Criteria I involves the active blocking of access or contact between the child and the absent parent. The rationale used to justify it may well take many different forms. One of the most common is that of protection. It may be argued that the absent parent's parental judgment is inferior and, therefore, the child is much worse off from the visit. In extreme cases, this will take the form of allegations of child abuse, quite often sexual abuse. This will be addressed in more detail in Criteria II, but suffice it to say that often this is heard as a reason for visitation to be suspended or even terminated. On a more subtle and common level, an argument heard for the blocking of visitation is that seeing the absent parent is "unsettling" to the child, and that they need time "to adjust." The message here is that the absent parent is treated less like a key family member and more like an annoying acquaintance that the child must see at times. Over time, this pattern can have a seriously erosive effect on the child's relationship with the absent parent. An even more subtle expression of this is that the visitation is "inconvenient," thereby relegating it to the status of an errand or chore. Again the result is the erosion of the relationship between the child and the absent or "target" parent. One phenomenon often seen in this context is that any deviation from the schedule is used as a reason to cancel visitation entirely.

The common thread to all of these tactics is that one parent is superior and the other is not and, therefore, should be peripheral to the child's life. The alienating parent in these circumstances is acting inappropriately as a gatekeeper for the child to see the absent parent. When this occurs for periods of substantial time, the child is given the unspoken but clear message that one parent is senior to the other. Younger children are more vulnerable to this message and tend to take it uncritically; however, one can always detect elements of it echoed even into the teenage years. The important concept here is that each parent is given the responsibility to promote a positive relationship with the other parent. When this principle is violated in the context of blocking access on a consistent basis, one can assume that Criteria I has been, unmistakably identified.

Criteria II: Unfounded Abuse Allegations

The second criteria is related to false or unfounded accusations of abuse against the absent parent. The most strident expression of this is the false accusation of sexual abuse.(4) It has been well studied that the incident of false allegations of sexual abuse account for over half of those reported, when the parents are divorcing or are in conflict over some post dissolution issue.(5) This is especially the situation with small children who are more vulnerable to the manipulations implied by such false allegations. When the record shows that even one report of such abuse is ruled as unfounded, the interviewer is well advised to look for other expressions of false accusations.

Other examples of this might be found in allegations of physical abuse that investigators later rule as being unfounded. Interestingly our experience has been that there are fewer false allegations of physical abuse than of other forms of abuse, presumably because physical abuse leaves visible evidence. It is, of course, much easier to falsely accuse someone of something that leaves no physical sign and has no third party witnesses.

A much more common expression of this pattern would be that of what would be termed emotional abuse. When false allegations of emotional abuse are leveled, one often finds that what is present is actually differing parental judgment that is being framed as "abusive" by the absent parent. For example, one parent may let a child stay up later at night than the other parent would, and this scheduling might be termed as being "abusive" or "detrimental" to the child. Or one parent might introduce a new "significant other" to the child before the other parent believes that they should and this might also be called "abusive" to the child. Alternatively one parent might enroll a child in an activity with which the other parent disagrees and this activity is, in actuality, a difference of parental opinion that is now described as being abusive in nature. These examples, as trivial as they seem individually, may be suggestive of a theme of treating parental difference in inappropriately subjective judgmental terms. If this theme is present, all manner of things can be described in ways that convey the message of abuse, either directly or indirectly. When this phenomenon occurs in literally thousands of different ways and times, each of which seems insignificant on its own, the emotional atmosphere that it creates carries a clearly alienating effect on the child.

Obviously, this type of acrimony is very common in dissolution actions but such conflict should not necessarily be mistaken or be taken as illustrative of the PAS syndrome; however, the criteria is clearly present and identifiable when the parent is eager to hurl abuse allegations, rather than being cautious, careful. and even reluctant to do so. This latter stance is more in keeping with the parent's responsibility to encourage and affirmatively support a relationship with the other parent. The responsible parent will only allege abuse after he or she has tried and failed to rationalize why the issue at hand is not abusive. Simply put, the responsible parent will give the other parent the benefit of the doubt when such allegations arise. He or she will, if anything, err on the side of denial, whereas the alienating parent will not miss an opportunity to accuse the other parent. When this theme is present in a clear and consistent way, this criteria for PAS is met.

Criteria III: Deterioration in Relationship Since Separation

The third of the criteria necessary for the detection of PAS is probably the least described or identified, but critically is one of the most important. It has to do with the existence of a positive relationship between the minor children and the now absent or nonresidential parent, prior to the marital separation; and a substantial deterioration, of it since then. Such a recognized decline does not occur on its own. It is, therefore, one of the most important indicators of the presence of alienation as well. as a full measure of its relative "success." By way of example, if a father had a good and involved relationship with the children prior to the separation, and a very distant one since, then one can only assume without explicit proof to the contrary that something caused it to change. If this father is clearly trying to maintain a positive relationship with the children through observance of visitation and other activities and the children do not want to see him or have him involved in their lives, then one can only speculate that an alienation process may have been in operation. Children do not naturally lose interest in and become distant from their nonresidential parent simply by virtue of the absence of that parent. Also, healthy and established parental relationships do not erode naturally of their own accord. They must be attacked. Therefore, any dramatic change in this area is virtually always an indicator of an alienation process that has had some success in the past.

Most notably, if a careful evaluation of the pre-separation parental relationship is not made, its omission creates an impression that the troubled or even alienated status that exists since is more or lees an accurate summary of what existed previously. Note that nothing could be further from the truth! An alienated or even partially or intermittently alienated relationship with the nonresidential parent and the children after the separation is more accurately a distortion of the real parental relationship in question. Its follow-through is often overlooked in the hysterical atmosphere that is often present in these cases. A careful practitioner well knows that a close examination is warranted and that it must be conducted with the utmost detail and scrutiny.

If this piece of the puzzle is left out, the consequences can be quite devastating for the survival of this relationship. Also, without this component, the court can be easily swayed into premature closure or fooled into thinking that the turmoil of the separation environment is representative of the true parent-child relationship. Once this ruling is made by the court, it is an exacting challenge to correct its perception.

In a separate but related issue, a word should be said about the use of experts. First, it must be understood that all mental health professionals are not aware of nor know how to treat the PAS phenomenon. In fact, when a mental health professional unfamiliar with PAS is called upon to make a recommendation about custody, access, or related issues, he or she potentially can do more harm than good. For example, if the psychologist fails to investigate the pre-separation relationship of the nonresidential parent and the children, he or she may very easily mistake the current acrimony in that relationship to be representative of it, and recommend that the children should have less visitation with that parent, obviously supporting the undiagnosed PAS that is still in progress. If that expert also fails to evaluate critically the abuse claims or the agenda of the claimant, they may be taken at face value and again potentially support the undiagnosed PAS. If that professional is not also sensitive to the subtleties of access and contact blocking as its motivator, he or she may potentially support it, thereby contributing to the PAS process. When these things occur, the mental health professional expert has actually become part of the PAS, albeit unwittingly. Alarmingly, this happens often. Suffice it to say, if PAS is suspected, the attorney should closely and carefully evaluate the mental health professional's investigation and conclusion. Failure to do so can cause irreparable harm to the case, and, ultimately to the children.

Criteria IV: Intense Fear Reaction by Children

The fourth criteria necessary for the detection of PAS is admittedly more psychological than the first three. It refers to an obvious fear reaction on the part of the children, of displeasing or disagreeing with the potentially alienating parent in regard to the absent or potential target parent. Simply put, an alienating parent operates by the adage, "My way or the highway." If the children disobey this directive, especially in expressing positive approval of the absent parent, the consequences can be very serious. It is not uncommon for an alienating parent to reject the child(ren), often telling him or her that they should go live with the target parent. When this does occur one often sees that this threat is not carried out, yet it operates more as a message of constant warning. The child, in effect, is put into a position of being the alienating parent's "agent'' and is continually being put through various loyalty tests. The important issue here is that the alienating patent thus forces the child to choose parents. This, of course, is in direct opposition to a child's emotional well being.

In order to fully appreciate this scenario, one must realize that the PAS process operates in a "fear based" environment. It is the installation of fear by the alienating parent to the minor children that is the fuel by which this pattern is driven; this fear taps into what psychoanalysis tell us is the most basic emotion inherent in human nature--the fear of abandonment. Children under these conditions live in a state of chronic upset and threat of reprisal. When the child does dare to defy the alienating parent, they quickly learn that there is a serious price to pay. Consequently, children who live such lives develop an acute sense of vigilance over displeasing the alienating parent. The sensitized observer can see this in visitation plans that suddenly change for no apparent reason. For example, when the appointed time approaches, the child suddenly changes his or her tune and begins to loudly protest a visit that was not previously complained about. It is in these instances that a court, once suspecting PAS must enforce in strict terms the visitation schedule which otherwise would not have occurred or would have been ignored.

The alienating parent can most often be found posturing bewilderment regarding the sudden change in their child's feelings about the visit. In fact, the alienating parent often will appear to be the one supporting visitation. This scenario is a very common one in PAS families. It is standard because it encapsulates and exposes, if only for an instant, the fear-based core of the alienation process. Another way to express this concept would be that whenever the child is given any significant choice in the visitation, he or she is put in the position to act out a loyalty to the alienating parent's wishes by refusing to have the visitation at all with the absent parent. Failure to do so opens the door for that child's being abandoned by the parent with whom the child lives the vast majority of the time. Children, under these circumstances, will simply not opt on their own far a free choice. The court must thus act expeditiously to protect them and employ a host of specific and available remedies.(6)

As a consequence of the foregoing, these children learn to manipulate. Children often play one parent against the other in an effort to gain some advantage. In the case of PAS, the same dynamic operates at more desperate level. No longer manipulating to gain advantage, these children learn to manipulate just to survive. They become expert beyond their years at reading the emotional environment, telling partial truths, and then telling out-and-out lies. One must, however, remember that these are survival strategies that they were forced to learn in order to keep peace at home and avoid emotional attack by the residential parent. Given this understanding, it is perhaps easier to see why children, in an effort to cope with this situation, often find it easier if they begin to internalize the alienating parent's perceptions of the absent parent and begin to echo these feelings. This is one of the most compelling and dramatic effects of PAS, that is, hearing a child vilifying the absent parent and joining the alienating parent in such attacks. If one is not sensitive to the "fear-based" core at the heart of this, it is difficult not to take the child's protests at face value. This, of course, is compounded when the expert is also not sensitive to this powerful fear component, and believes that the child is voicing his or her own inner feelings in endorsing the "no visitation" plan.

Conclusion

All the criteria listed above can be found independent of each other in highly contested dissolutions, but remember that the appearance of some of them does not always constitute PAS. When all four are clearly present, however, add the possibility of real abuse has been reasonably ruled out, the parental alienation process is operative. This does not necessarily mean, however, that it is succeeding in that the children are being successfully alienated from the target parent. The best predictor of successful alienation is directly related to the success of the alienating parent at keeping the children from the target parent. When there are substantial periods in which they do not see the other parent, the children are more likely to be poisoned by the process. Another variable that predicts success is the child's age. Younger children generally are more vulnerable than older ones. Also, another variable is the depth and degree of involvement of the pre-separation parent-child relationship. The longer and more involved that relationship, the less vulnerable will be the children to successful alienation. The final predictor is the parental tenacity of the target parent. A targeted parent often gives up and walks away, thus greatly increasing the chances of successful alienation.

The question remains: What if all four criteria are present, but the children are not successfully alienated? Should this failure at alienation be seen as nullifying the attempt at alienation? The answer to that should be a resounding "No!" It should be, but often it is not. It is very common to read a psychological evaluation or a GAL's report that identified PAS but then notes that since it was not successful, it should not be taken very seriously. Nothing could be further from the truth. Any attempt at alienating the children from the other parent should be seen as a direct and willful violation of one of the prime duties of parenthood, which is to promote and encourage a positive and loving relationship with the other parent, and the concept of shared parental responsibility.

It is our feeling that when attempted PAS has been identified, successful or not, it must be dealt with swiftly by the court. If it is not, it will contaminate and quietly control all other parenting issues and then lead only to unhappiness, frustration, and, lastly, parental estrangement.



Last edited by aspergian_mutant on 03 Jan 2008, 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

03 Jan 2008, 1:23 am

After all, its child custody court.
The point being, the parents should not be childish over the child or each other.

.



Last edited by aspergian_mutant on 03 Jan 2008, 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pandora
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,553
Location: Townsville

03 Jan 2008, 2:05 am

Hmm, so much for no-fault divorce. Seems the no-fault divorce laws haven't stopped people from perjuring themselves. Child custody appears to be still slanted very much in the mother's favour and property settlements reflect this too. The sad thing is when one parent or the other is okay in themselves but then get a partner who doesn't have the child's best interests at heart.


_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon


aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

03 Jan 2008, 2:23 am

Pandora wrote:
Hmm, so much for no-fault divorce. Seems the no-fault divorce laws haven't stopped people from perjuring themselves. Child custody appears to be still slanted very much in the mother's favour and property settlements reflect this too. The sad thing is when one parent or the other is okay in themselves but then get a partner who doesn't have the child's best interests at heart.


Allot of it depends on the state,
Idaho is totally for equal custody and equal parenting.
Idaho is an really good parents rights state if handled right.
.



Last edited by aspergian_mutant on 03 Jan 2008, 8:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Pandora
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,553
Location: Townsville

03 Jan 2008, 2:25 am

She's done fairly well already to have 3 days a week custody.


_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon


gwenevyn
l'esprit de l'escalier
l'esprit de l'escalier

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,443

03 Jan 2008, 2:37 am

I'm sorry you're going through this. It must be really hard. When I was getting my divorce I was frightened that the courts might decide that my ex deserved visitation (he had been violent toward our child). Fortunately he was barred from seeing either one of us. It's really tough to have your child's well-being in the hands of the courts. It is hard to predict what will happen and so much is at stake.


_________________
The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but plunges him more deeply into them. -Antoine de Saint Exupéry


aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

03 Jan 2008, 2:42 am

Pandora wrote:
She's done fairly well already to have 3 days a week custody.


As pissed and shocked as I was with her for trying to take our child from me,
if the judge had let me have any more custody time then she did
I would have asked the judge to give her a little more just to be fair to our child.

I do not know why I feel this way, some of me wants to be really down on her
after the stunts she tried pulling and is still trying to pull, it hurt me really bad
seeing her say those things and asking for those things, It shattered my faith
in her and who she was, I can no longer believe in her anymore,
she broke her word to me, and I am still keeping mine, but my word
was not to just her, it was to our child.

she just is not being right or fair, especially with and to our child.

but our child needs and wants both of us in his life.

I wish she could see and understand this, but since our child is so young,
I think she feels that our child will adjust and it wont matter much,
when as it is, I am the light of his little life, he is a daddy's boy.
.



aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

03 Jan 2008, 2:53 am

gwenevyn wrote:
I'm sorry you're going through this. It must be really hard. When I was getting my divorce I was frightened that the courts might decide that my ex deserved visitation (he had been violent toward our child). Fortunately he was barred from seeing either one of us. It's really tough to have your child's well-being in the hands of the courts. It is hard to predict what will happen and so much is at stake.


Hard is not the word, I been and in many ways still am scared s**tless.
thats one of the reasons I push my self so hard every chance I get to do legal research.

someone I thought was being kind to me, sent me a check to help pay for a Lawyers
retainer fee, once I got the check I had the bank validate it before trying to cash it,
it seems someone thought it funny to send me a fraudulent check when I been feeling so desperate.
I cant afford a Lawyer, and for reasons I cant go into here,- get a free one at this time, so I have to become my own attorney, where she has one already, now THATS scary.
I do need help badly, I almost feel that if I was a woman that people
would most likely bend over backwords to help me,
like they are doing for her, its not right or fair.



aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

03 Jan 2008, 3:09 am

gwenevyn wrote:
I'm sorry you're going through this. It must be really hard. When I was getting my divorce I was frightened that the courts might decide that my ex deserved visitation (he had been violent toward our child). Fortunately he was barred from seeing either one of us. It's really tough to have your child's well-being in the hands of the courts. It is hard to predict what will happen and so much is at stake.


I can see your point, Violence is not right, I am a pacifist my self.

actually thats why I cant get a free Lawyer, when My Ex tried to take our child
from me she claimed Domestic Violence, for the longest I argued that I was not ever violent,
but after much research I found that just harassing someone was considered domestic violence,
and for weeks she basically Ignored our child leaving him in my care, I missed her, but that was my lot,
but when our child started to cry for her all the time because he missed her as well, it made my
heart sink, I felt he didn't deserve to feel rejected and abandoned him self, and since I had our child all the time I needed to know if he had appointments and the like he was missing, and to work something out with her about the holidays, she would not communicate with me about any issues dealing with our child or anything, I basically kept pestering her to spend time with our child and help me with those other issues. eventually she got sick of it and filed a domestic violence restraining order,
and then started trying to take our child totaly away from me.
The DVRO allowed her to get a free lawyer through Legal Aid,
and no free Lawyer service will assist me because its against their policy's until it gets dropped or removed, when we went to court the judge let her keep it as a cooling off period.
but its been hurting the hell out of me finding representation.
but the true reason the Judge favored me, is because of the reasons I pestered her,
even though I was in the wrong for doing so.



Last edited by aspergian_mutant on 03 Jan 2008, 3:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

gwenevyn
l'esprit de l'escalier
l'esprit de l'escalier

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,443

03 Jan 2008, 3:11 am

aspergian_mutant wrote:
I cant afford a Lawyer, and for reasons I cant go into here,- get a free one at this time, so I have to become my own attorney, where she has one already, now THATS scary.


Indeed! :(

Quote:
I do need help badly, I almost feel that if I was a woman that people
would most likely bend over backwords to help me,
like they are doing for her, its not right or fair.


I think people do feel sorry for women more easily... it's just biological I suppose. That said, I could tell you awful things about the way I was treated by the courts and the police when I was trying to get help. The problem for honest people of either sex is that the courts are accustomed to seeing so many liars, everybody's suspect.

You're being brave though. And kudos for familiarizing yourself with the law. You're far more personally invested than any lawyer would be--that in itself is a great asset.


_________________
The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but plunges him more deeply into them. -Antoine de Saint Exupéry


gwenevyn
l'esprit de l'escalier
l'esprit de l'escalier

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,443

03 Jan 2008, 3:14 am

aspergian_mutant wrote:
but the true reason the Judge favored me, is because of the reasons I pestered her,
even though I was in the wrong for doing so.


I like hearing about cases in which the judges take that sort of thing into consideration. Clearly calling someone frequently is not anywhere near as harmful as beating someone or making threats (in your case it sounds like you were left without many options, anyhow). I'm glad that the judge was reasonable.


_________________
The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but plunges him more deeply into them. -Antoine de Saint Exupéry


aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

03 Jan 2008, 8:25 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
aspergian_mutant wrote:
but the true reason the Judge favored me, is because of the reasons I pestered her,
even though I was in the wrong for doing so.


I like hearing about cases in which the judges take that sort of thing into consideration. Clearly calling someone frequently is not anywhere near as harmful as beating someone or making threats (in your case it sounds like you were left without many options, anyhow). I'm glad that the judge was reasonable.


If I had known from the start she was going to react the way she did and is doing,
I would have just held our baby close and comforted him and left her alone.



Pandora
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,553
Location: Townsville

04 Jan 2008, 6:13 am

Another thing the court should be looking at (but I don't know if they will) is her track record in relationships. There is something seriously wrong somewhere if she's had 5 children to 5 different guys. The current boyfriend probably won't stick around for too long either. What I'm getting at is, there is likely to be a very unstable home life with her unless by some miracle this boyfriend is a keeper.


_________________
Break out you Western girls,
Someday soon you're gonna rule the world.
Break out you Western girls,
Hold your heads up high.
"Western Girls" - Dragon


aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

04 Jan 2008, 6:46 am

Pandora wrote:
Another thing the court should be looking at (but I don't know if they will) is her track record in relationships. There is something seriously wrong somewhere if she's had 5 children to 5 different guys. The current boyfriend probably won't stick around for too long either. What I'm getting at is, there is likely to be a very unstable home life with her unless by some miracle this boyfriend is a keeper.


no, this is her actual track record,

Ex-husband#1, 2 kids, she somehow striped his children from him,
she told me he was unstable and he LIKED living on the streets
and that he was a child molester. but I only heard her side of the story.

Then there was another that had cancer and died, she wanted his
child and he knew this so he refused her.

then there came (as far as I know)

Ex-husband#2, they had 3 children together, she fell in love with one of his
older children from one of his previous relationships, things fell apart after that,
and of course his child did not want to engage in a relationship with her.
he also tells me that she most always tries to find someone new
before her last relationship ends, especially when she is unhappy with
the way things go with someone and she knows its going to end soon.

then came this other guy, she wanted his child as well,
but I heard conflicting reports, she told me he wanted her
to get an abortion and so she did then hated him for it,
where as she had posted in her blog that she felt things unstable
and she did not want things to affect her work/job place
so she quit the child. this man told me she had started
getting interested in me right before her relationship
with him ended.

then come me, she was supposed to be on birth control
but got pregnant anyways, I wanted a child my self but I wanted to wait
for our relationship to last at least a year to see how things went,
she got pregnant a little under 3 months after we was together.
she told me she was interested in or was falling in love with 3 different men
during our relationship, the last one she got interested in is the one she is with now.

most all her relationships lasted an average of 2-4 years or less.



Wilco
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 289
Location: Netherlands, Noord-Holland

04 Jan 2008, 7:14 am

sounds to me like a very unstable enviroment. not good for a kid. especially if the kid has asperger



aspergian_mutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,510

05 Jan 2008, 12:05 am

Wilco wrote:
sounds to me like a very unstable environment. not good for a kid. especially if the kid has asperger


I know, this worries me as well, just like with me, I fell in love with all those children,
I watched over and cared for all those children many hours almost every day while
the mother gone off to do her own thing (I was basically her free baby sitter),
they got attached to me and felt they could depend on me to be there for them,
I worked with them with flash cards, I read to them, I watched movies with them,
I played with them, and much much more,
then suddenly I was gone out of their lives, and they must feel they have to agree with
their mother and like this new man she presented to them and not show how much they missed me.

just like with me, it must have been hard on them.

now do this with many men in a row in their lives, every 2-4 years.
now what kind of affect do you think that would have on them in the long run?