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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10193
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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 Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: |
That's right too. I've never done this. If I've been rude without realising it at the time, I usually come to realise it a few moments after, then think, ''oops, I done it again,'' and I think some people can tell that you did not do it intentionally by the guilty look on your face after. But I have never thought, ''oh good, I have AS so I can be rude whenever I want.'' That is inappropriate. |
Well, of course. I know from feedback over the years that I have often been unintentionally rude. I also know that I have on some occasions deliberately as rude as possible. I didn't use the former to explain the latter, because being rude was part of the intended message.
I don't always realize a few moments after. Sometimes it's days or longer. |
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CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87192
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
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Jellybean
Pokémon trainer
Joined: Apr 21, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 2827
Location: Bedford UK
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Seph wrote:
I've even had the experience of having the "demon of muteness" cast out of me.
Oh yeah. I've been prayed over like that.
WTF? I'm "oppressed" by evil because I don't conform to what ever you're own particular concept of truth happens to be? Jesus must really be impressed with your ability to pass judgment on the innocent. |
A 'friend' at school tried to exorcise my Tourettes! She must have thought it was devil possession!
_________________
I have ASC, ADHD, OCD, Tourette syndrome, dyspraxia and depression all diagnosed. I'm in there somewhere! |
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Joe90
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 8249
Location: Great Britain
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Like everything, there's a time and a place to be rude when appropriate, like if somebody is being rude to you and you need to be rude back to defend yourself. Well, this is what I should do anyway, because if somebody is being rude to me, usually I take their sh**, which encourages others to take advantage.
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Real gender: Female
From: East UK
Age: 23 |
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Seph
Velociraptor
Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 406
Location: In a space station in orbit around Saturn
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Verdandi wrote: |
What I would point out is that most people are assholes and will assume an honest explanation is an excuse because most people don't really understand that "disability" means a limitation on one's capabilities in some way, or they think it just means "You have to try a little harder." Or they think that mentioning actual difficulties and challenges you face is emotionally manipulative. I would suggest finding other ways to explain the situation that does not directly reference autism, ADHD, etc. Not because these are never valid reasons, but as a matter of self-protection from other people's ableist prejudices.
And sometimes it's downright appropriate to bring up. |
The context of my life is support groups. In theory there should be some protection from people's prejudices although I suspect I'll encounter some. Eventually I hope to rejoin the rest of humanity in some way and when I do, I may rethink disclosing ASD. Right now though I can't deal with the unknowns of what people assume. I think I can deal with prejudice directly against autism because it's on them and not on me. You did give me some things to think about. |
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Peko
Chameleon by Force
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Age: 22
Posts: 2389
Location: Eastern PA, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. |
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| Dark_Lord_2008 wrote: | | "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. If a kid says something rude to you, you tell them why it was rude and why they shouldn't do that. If an adult does the same, and you rebuff them, and they just say "I have Asperger's, so I do that," then you tell them to go f**k themselves. If they say "oh, sorry..." then you accept their apology. People with Asperger's can learn social skills and not be a jerk. People can overcome it through effort and practice, so using it to excuse as*hole behavior is bullshit. |
Thank god I'm not the only one who thinks this way...
_________________
Balance is needed within the universe, can be demonstrated in most/all concepts/things. Black/White, Good/Evil, etc.
All dependent upon your own perspective in your own form of existence, so trust your own gut and live the way YOU want/need to. |
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League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13496
Location: My house
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. |
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| Dark_Lord_2008 wrote: | | "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. If a kid says something rude to you, you tell them why it was rude and why they shouldn't do that. If an adult does the same, and you rebuff them, and they just say "I have Asperger's, so I do that," then you tell them to go f**k themselves. If they say "oh, sorry..." then you accept their apology. People with Asperger's can learn social skills and not be a jerk. People can overcome it through effort and practice, so using it to excuse as*hole behavior is bullshit. |
For the first time ever, I actually agree with you. It is no excuse to be rude. Just like me having anxiety is no excuse for me to be rude and impatient and to be a jerk. I always feel bad for my behavior when I couldn't help it or when I had a hard time controlling it. I just think I will try harder next time and I do.
One time I offended my aunt with a thank you card and I learned after that to not ever mention cost when you write thank you cards and I have also been told to not ever mention cost when it comes to gifts. I was also told never tell anyone how much you paid for the gift you give them. Do not say cheap frugal or inexpensive, nothing about money. Problem solved, I learned that and I don't see who wouldn't be able to learn that. That is learning a social skill right there. Us aspies keep learning bits of it as we get older and try and make a note of it and remember it. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. |
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| League_Girl wrote: | | Dark_Lord_2008 wrote: | | "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. If a kid says something rude to you, you tell them why it was rude and why they shouldn't do that. If an adult does the same, and you rebuff them, and they just say "I have Asperger's, so I do that," then you tell them to go f**k themselves. If they say "oh, sorry..." then you accept their apology. People with Asperger's can learn social skills and not be a jerk. People can overcome it through effort and practice, so using it to excuse as*hole behavior is bullshit. |
For the first time ever, I actually agree with you. It is no excuse to be rude. Just like me having anxiety is no excuse for me to be rude and impatient and to be a jerk. I always feel bad for my behavior when I couldn't help it or when I had a hard time controlling it. I just think I will try harder next time and I do.
One time I offended my aunt with a thank you card and I learned after that to not ever mention cost when you write thank you cards and I have also been told to not ever mention cost when it comes to gifts. I was also told never tell anyone how much you paid for the gift you give them. Do not say cheap frugal or inexpensive, nothing about money. Problem solved, I learned that and I don't see who wouldn't be able to learn that. That is learning a social skill right there. Us aspies keep learning bits of it as we get older and try and make a note of it and remember it. |
Well I have always found the whole 'don't ever mention prices when it comes to gifts' a little bit ridiculous. Like if it bothers people I don't. But I swear the horrified look on some of my family members faces when they are wrapping a gift and realise there is a price tag left on the gift would make one think the penalty for exposing how much was spent is death. I really don't understand it.......I mean when I am around people who worry about that then I won't leave the price tag otherwise I don't care. |
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10193
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Seph wrote: | | Verdandi wrote: |
What I would point out is that most people are assholes and will assume an honest explanation is an excuse because most people don't really understand that "disability" means a limitation on one's capabilities in some way, or they think it just means "You have to try a little harder." Or they think that mentioning actual difficulties and challenges you face is emotionally manipulative. I would suggest finding other ways to explain the situation that does not directly reference autism, ADHD, etc. Not because these are never valid reasons, but as a matter of self-protection from other people's ableist prejudices.
And sometimes it's downright appropriate to bring up. |
The context of my life is support groups. In theory there should be some protection from people's prejudices although I suspect I'll encounter some. Eventually I hope to rejoin the rest of humanity in some way and when I do, I may rethink disclosing ASD. Right now though I can't deal with the unknowns of what people assume. I think I can deal with prejudice directly against autism because it's on them and not on me. You did give me some things to think about. |
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm not really saying no one should, just suggesting that do so makes more sense as a means of self-protection than worrying about whether one is using it as an excuse. |
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Rasta is about freedom and the living God
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Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 7998
Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I learned about gift giving from my mother, not to leave prices on gifts and talk about how much they cost. Lately, though, the trend is to give the person receiving the gift the receipt so they can take it back to the store. The "social skill" keeps changing and I can't keep up. Really, how important is it?
I have relatives who leave price tags on the gifts and think regifting and recycling are one in the same and both are equally good and these people are not ASD. A different set of norms predominate.
So, I don't concern myself with such trifles. |
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leejosepho
life student
Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Age: 63
Posts: 8118
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | ... the horrified look on some of my family members faces when they are wrapping a gift and realise there is a price tag left on the gift would make one think the penalty for exposing how much was spent is death. I really don't understand it....... |
I remember that from my childhood and on into adulthood, and I think that was/is some kind of "pretend" game where everybody believes they are helping each other to "just ignore the price" and "only count the thought since that is what really counts."
| ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote: | | I learned about gift giving from my mother, not to leave prices on gifts and talk about how much they cost. Lately, though, the trend is to give the person receiving the gift the receipt so they can take it back to the store. The "social skill" keeps changing and I can't keep up. Really, how important is it? |
My mother used to keep the receipts and keep them handy in case someone later actually needed a receipt and had asked, but then that just led to people giving things away rather than asking for the receipt ... and then my mother felt like a poor gift-giver.
Overall, I think it is best to just give something to someone either with or without the price and receipt and to then just disconnect oneself from any concern about what people do with those things that have just become their own.
_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
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Last edited by leejosepho on Fri May 27, 2011 2:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13496
Location: My house
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | League_Girl wrote: | | Dark_Lord_2008 wrote: | | "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. If a kid says something rude to you, you tell them why it was rude and why they shouldn't do that. If an adult does the same, and you rebuff them, and they just say "I have Asperger's, so I do that," then you tell them to go f**k themselves. If they say "oh, sorry..." then you accept their apology. People with Asperger's can learn social skills and not be a jerk. People can overcome it through effort and practice, so using it to excuse as*hole behavior is bullshit. |
For the first time ever, I actually agree with you. It is no excuse to be rude. Just like me having anxiety is no excuse for me to be rude and impatient and to be a jerk. I always feel bad for my behavior when I couldn't help it or when I had a hard time controlling it. I just think I will try harder next time and I do.
One time I offended my aunt with a thank you card and I learned after that to not ever mention cost when you write thank you cards and I have also been told to not ever mention cost when it comes to gifts. I was also told never tell anyone how much you paid for the gift you give them. Do not say cheap frugal or inexpensive, nothing about money. Problem solved, I learned that and I don't see who wouldn't be able to learn that. That is learning a social skill right there. Us aspies keep learning bits of it as we get older and try and make a note of it and remember it. |
Well I have always found the whole 'don't ever mention prices when it comes to gifts' a little bit ridiculous. Like if it bothers people I don't. But I swear the horrified look on some of my family members faces when they are wrapping a gift and realise there is a price tag left on the gift would make one think the penalty for exposing how much was spent is death. I really don't understand it.......I mean when I am around people who worry about that then I won't leave the price tag otherwise I don't care. |
But now that I know of the rule, it's not my AS anymore, it's just me being rude now. That is what the OP means. Us aspies just don't pick up on these things so we need to be told and once we're told, it is no longer an excuse and we're just rude now.
Sometimes people accidentally leave the price tags on but those things happen. I don't even know if it be a appropriate to tell them they left it on after I receive their gift. After all I was told to not ever mention costs. If I want to be rude, I will tell the person but I will not say it was my AS that made me do it because I full well knew it might be rude to mention that. Even if I think I was trying to be helpful so the person will be careful next time when they wrap up presents, it's still be rude of me.
If I think something is stupid to be considered rude, I am just rude then and not blame it on my AS. Problem solved. I have noticed now that everyone seems to have their own conception of what is rude and what isn't. Like if they don't like what you have said, they say you were rude even though you were not. |
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rabidmonkey4262
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2011
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | rabidmonkey4262 wrote: | It's about how you're raised, not any type of anomalous neurological condition. There are people that use their AS as an excuse, but don't bother learn social skills. They forget that having AS also means you have a penchant for learning and discovering. There's no reason you can't take time out of your day to learn how to choke out a few niceties and attempt to codify a few social rules, even if it is nauseating.
I'm not naturally good at small talk and I find that systemizing social rules is arduous, but if it's the price I have to pay to function in school and work, then I'll figure out how to do it. |
Well actually there is more to behavior then how one is raised.....aspergers is still not an excuse to be rude or an excuse to refuse to even learn any social skills. However a lot of people with aspergers may not be able to behave completely normal so others are still going to know there is something different about them. |
Yes, and there is a difference between being rude and being strange. It all comes down to finding people that are smart enough not to associate strange behavior with being rude. For example I like to sit in my room and shut myself from the world. Some people will find that rude because it's strange, but I'm not hurting anyone else, so I don't see that as rude behavior.
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Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. |
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League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13496
Location: My house
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote: | I learned about gift giving from my mother, not to leave prices on gifts and talk about how much they cost. Lately, though, the trend is to give the person receiving the gift the receipt so they can take it back to the store. The "social skill" keeps changing and I can't keep up. Really, how important is it?
I have relatives who leave price tags on the gifts and think regifting and recycling are one in the same and both are equally good and these people are not ASD. A different set of norms predominate.
So, I don't concern myself with such trifles. |
Yeah it does get confusing when people keep changing the social rules. It's like the run around.
It's acceptable for gift receipts but it's not acceptable to leave on price tags and if you have to leave them on, cross out the price. You can't tear tags off of clothing so you have to cross off the price. Then the store would have to put on a replacement price if you have to take it back.
My husband once told me to not say anything to his grandma about how much she spent on her Christmas ornament she gave us. She forgot to take off the price tag so we saw how much she spent on it.
Also NTs break social rules all the time but they never have an excuse for it so why should we have an excuse if we do it intentionally? This is where it comes in about AS is no excuse and where I say that's not AS anymore if you know the rule now. Just like I saw me having anxiety is no excuse to be a b***h and if I act that way, I just say I was a b***h and I need to try harder, anxiety is no excuse and since I was aware of my behavior, I don't have an excuse. I just need to try harder and I feel bad always. That means I'm not using it as an excuse. |
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wefunction
Christian Soccer Mom
Joined: Jan 05, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 2486
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I come bearing hypothetical scenarios, please stay with me.
Scenario A:
Aspie is talking with NT 1 and NT 2. Aspie is making an effort to contribute to the discussion and not say anything too far from expectation or understanding. Unfortunately, NT 1 says something to Aspie that Aspie completely misses and just continues on with the discussion as if NT 1 never said anything at all. Both NT 1 and NT 2 think this is really obnoxious or weird of Aspie, and Aspie is completely unaware that it even happened. If Aspie ever has a chance to explain, Aspie would be able to apologize and explain that sometimes moments in a discussion are completely missed, it's unintentional and please don't ever take offense.
Scenario B:
Aspie is talking with NT 1 and NT 2. Aspie is distracted and not really making an effort to talk to either of these people because they are going off-topic so often and aren't even discussing Aspie's special interest. Aspie insists on bringing up the special interest as much as possible so that the three of them can discuss something interesting. NT 1 and NT 2 are not very happy and form a negative opinion about Aspie. When given the opportunity to explain the behavior, Aspie claimed that Aspergers makes it completely okay to behave this way.
In my opinion, Scenario A is acceptable and Scenario B is not. If I'm understanding the OP's context correctly, Scenario B would be the matching hypothetical for this topic, not Scenario A. |
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