Tell the truth about Islam!

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So, there is no difference between lets say institutionalized racism and non institutionalized racism?

Christians and Jews have been violent towards women but we do not tie them up and ripped their finger nails out when they paint them this happens in muslims countries.

no, whether it is sanctioned is frankly irrelevant if the results are the same.

the results are the same. an institution is easier to target but both examples should be fought equally. it seems as though people find it uncomfortable to confront the wrongs that exist within our greater society.

Islam is overtly regressive toward women. I'm not sure you want to be defending that aspect of it. There is even a bit where it requires two women in court to equal the word of one man. Because women are forgetful and need help from each other to sort things out.

A muslim will say, and ive had this discussion many times, that it's not unequal treatment, it's simply equal in different ways. Or they'll say that it's equality within the context that god put man in charge and each have specific roles. It's word salad tbh.

Of course some muslims, like christians, will just ignore passages they don't like. There is a debate over whether the physical correction of a woman amounts to a light symbolic tap to say, "im in charge here", or whether it's a slap, or whether it's a beating.

Last edited by simon_says on 20 Mar 2012, 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The trouble is that its very hard to "fight" and confront individuals. In another thread it was spoken about the fact that people tend to get a more negative view of a woman who negotiates roughly than a man that does the same. This view was shared amongst both women and men, how does one confront this? If the law said that this should be the case or it was mandated in the policy of a company it would be much easier to confront.

Furthermore, there is much more room for something being misconstrued in interaction between individuals than in the case of an institution.

On a non discussion related comment, I always found it funny that the same women who often want equality, won't sleep with a guy who doesn't pay on dates. This is not a scientific claim, just an observation.

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Last edited by smudge on 20 Mar 2012, 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Far left says socialism/communism in the political spectrum, neither of which encourage religious people

I agree with this statement

TM, there are ways we are working to fight non-institutionalised sexism and violence against women, but interestingly many of the people who are o-so-concerned for Islamic women have no support at all for the movement that is working to change these things for women in their own backyard. very ironic.

There is a difference between socialism/communism and the far left. I'm on the far left socially but I'm also quite a fan of capitalism. I'm not the only one like that. There is also the fact that multiple Socialist countries have state churches. How is having everyone in the country pay a church tax not encouraging religious people? Denmark is fairly socialist, they also have a blasphemy law, so does Greece which has been run by the socialist party more or less since the Colonels were dethroned. There are countless examples to draw from here.

None of those places really classify as "far left". My views are probably similar to yours but I do not consider myself far left. North Korea is pretty far left. So are a lot of militant organizations.

In my case, the lack of support stems from a disillusion with the broad feminist movement. I still support gender equality, within a freedom principle. Meaning that everyone should have access to the same opportunities regardless of gender and be able to chose between them freely. It means that the best qualified person should get the job and that the couple themselves should be allowed to decide how to handle things like maternity leave meaning that they can freely divide the majority of it between them as they desire. It means that a persons pay should be based on that persons value to the company regardless of gender and quite a few other things.

I don't classify just left-right. I classify authoritarian and liberal as well, so Stalin is left wing authoritarian, whereas Denmark is left wing liberal.

I wouldn't watch too much Pat Condell if I were you. Like all polemicists, he is a very lazy thinker, and he is an expert at using rhetoric to make you think that he has avoided a problem with his worldview when in fact he hasn't. Also, he's not really a humanist, he's just a shill for Israel.

It's true that there is a big correlation between holding regressive views and being Muslim. But it's nonsensical to say that Islam causes these regressive views. As Condell says in the video, Christianity used to be just as terrible. Well then, did Christianity "cause" regressive views, whereas now Christianity "causes" less regressive views? Nope, it's because the attitudes of Christians changed for other reasons, and then Christianity was forced to change along with it.

Religion is not nearly as causal as people think. Notice how people nearly always think that God has the same opinions that they have? It's because, even in Islam, people just do whatever feels right to them and reinvent the religion to suit their own prejudices.

Can you imagine a world in which the places of Christianity and Islam are reversed, where Muslims constantly refer to the nice verses in the Koran and ignore the terrible ones, and where Christians constantly refer to the terrible verses in the Bible and ignore the nice ones? I can. If you can too, then Condell is clearly talking nonsense.

That's because in the vast majority of christian countries there is separation of church and state.