How come people with Aspergers can't work ?

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Rascal77s
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14 Jul 2012, 12:52 pm

cavendish wrote:

I started this thread becuase I was curious as to why people with Aspergers say they can't work. I can understand why some are not able to, and legitimately apply for government benefits. However, I must say that it quite reasonable to have considerable doubts as to the status of some here, due to the very intelligent and articulate way they present themselves in written communication.

I like repeating myself so here you go, my reply to you back on page 13.

Rascal77s wrote:

cavendish wrote:

My sense is that so many people here have the ability to work ,and should go out there, and make a contribution to society.

Your sense is telling you that because you're not paying attention to what people are telling you. You're making judgements based on how people communicate on an internet forum. Writing on a forum, with no time pressure, the ability to correct errors before posting, cut off from sound and visual distractions, and only one direction of communication at a time is not an accurate measure of how the person will be able to interact offline. You can't say, "oh that person writes reasonably well, he must be able to work". The reason Autism has such high unemployment, even by the standards of other 'disabilities', is because it is a cocktail of many conditions, that each alone, would cause a person difficulty in living a 'normal' life. Start listening to what these people are telling you instead of focusing on how well they type.

viv
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14 Jul 2012, 1:20 pm

Lots of Aspies have very good reasons why they can't work. Lately I've been trying to figure out some Aspies being unable to find employment. It seems like a contradiction because in some ways Aspie traits do make for good employees. While I was researching I ran into something interesting. When looking at employment rates - Hispanic men are actually the most employed population in the US as of 2009:

Hispanic men have 73.7% employment rate (68.7 for white men and 54.43 for black men)

This was interesting to me because it was contrary to what I expected, I thought lower education rates and racial discrimination would serve as barriers to employment.

I found some explanations - for example, jobs that traditionally employ Hispanics are doing better in the recovery. But the question still remained why aren’t more educated and less racially disadvantaged white men replacing Hispanic men in these areas?

Then I found it, despite having the highest employment rate, Hispanic men also have a high unemployment rate 11% compared to 6.4% for whites. So why did the highest employed population also have such a high unemployment rate? The reason is unemployment only counts people actually looking for work - it leaves out everyone who has given up or just dropped out of the job market. so it seems likely that they are more likely than the general population to actively and persistently look for jobs, while many others will give up after extended periods of unemployment and many rejections.

The only thing I can't explain are the black men who have the highest unemployment rates (so are the most actively looking for a job) but also the lowest employment rates. This must be related to other factors.

So maybe Aspies are like Latinos - if we actively and persistently look for jobs, even after many rejections, and are willing to accept unpleasant jobs, like the Latinos, maybe we too will have good employment rates.

On the other hand, maybe Aspies are like black men - who just can't seem to catch a break no matter how hard they try.

I don't know, but without the information available, it seems good for those who want jobs to mimic Latinos - keep actively and persistently trying even when the odds are stacked against you.

Rascal77s
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14 Jul 2012, 1:27 pm

viv wrote:

Lots of Aspies have very good reasons why they can't work. Lately I've been trying to figure out some Aspies being unable to find employment. It seems like a contradiction because in some ways Aspie traits do make for good employees. While I was researching I ran into something interesting. When looking at employment rates - Hispanic men are actually the most employed population in the US as of 2009:

Hispanic men have 73.7% employment rate (68.7 for white men and 54.43 for black men)

This was interesting to me because it was contrary to what I expected, I thought lower education rates and racial discrimination would serve as barriers to employment.

I found some explanations - for example, jobs that rationally employ Hispanics are doing better in the recovery. But the question still remained why aren’t more educated and less racially disadvantaged white men replacing Hispanic men in these areas?

Then I found it, despite having the highest employment rate, Hispanic men also have a high unemployment rate 11% compared to 6.4% for whites. So why did the highest employed population also have such a high unemployment rate? The reason is unemployment only counts people actually looking for work - it leaves out everyone who has given up or just dropped out of the job market. so it seems likely that they are more likely than the general population to actively and persistently look for jobs, while many others will give up after extended periods of unemployment and many rejections.

The only thing I can't explain are the black men who have the highest unemployment rates (so are the most actively looking for a job) but also the lowest employment rates. This must be related to other factors.

So maybe Aspies are like Latinos - if we actively and persistently look for jobs, even after many rejections, and are willing to accept unpleasant jobs, like the Latinos, maybe we too will have good employment rates.

On the other hand, maybe Aspies are like black men - who just can't seem to catch a break no matter how hard they try.

I don't know, but without the information available, it seems good for those who want jobs to mimic Latinos - keep actively and persistently trying even when the odds are stacked against you.

Look at the unemployment, poverty, and education rates for Native Americans. It makes me sad and angry how marginalized and neglected they are in the US and Canada.

CyborgUprising
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14 Jul 2012, 2:29 pm

Something that isn't controversial is complaining about people receiving benefits, (you neglected to add what I said in my original statement: people receiving benefits who are not disabled...Cherry-picking again, I see)

When one says that people should be more willing to work while not understanding the circumstances said people may be living with, then one is aligning themselves with fairly conventional right wing talking points. I know this individual's situation, thank you very much. Saying I aligned myself with Conservatives, interesting... I am non-partisan. Get it through your head. Also, where did I say "people should be more willing to work?" I said a particular individual (who I know quite well) should not be (illegally) receiving disability benefits.

Don't be melodramatic. No one's called you evil, no one's called you a liar. I pointed out you were agreeing with bullying behavior. Your statements are not radical, unpopular, or controversial (they are among certain groups, including Conservatives and the religious fundamentalists), You may not be conservative yourself, but you agreed with some very popular conservative talking points.
There you are, claiming I said you called me evil. I said you can call me evil all you want. I did not say you called me evil. Where are you getting that from? You say I am be[ing] melodramatic; I am certainly not. Telling someone that the things they say are untrue is equivalent to calling them a liar.

1000Knives
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14 Jul 2012, 2:49 pm

cavendish wrote:

You been to a store? How many use eloquent speech working in stores?

I do know you and all, but this is the kinda crap therapists tell me when they say I should just go out and get work anywhere "OH BUT YOU TALK SO WELL, YOU DONT HAVE NVLD/ASPERGERS."

You talk well, too, why haven't you made tons and tons of money over the years? There's obviously something missing with us.

Dude makes millions a year. Obviously not based upon his ability to communicate well online.

deltafunction
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14 Jul 2012, 3:03 pm

^^ :lol:

Good point. I laughed at what Kanye wrote.

Tuttle
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14 Jul 2012, 3:03 pm

Quote:

When one says that people should be more willing to work while not understanding the circumstances said people may be living with, then one is aligning themselves with fairly conventional right wing talking points. I know this individual's situation, thank you very much. Saying I aligned myself with Conservatives, interesting... I am non-partisan. Get it through your head. Also, where did I say "people should be more willing to work?" I said a particular individual (who I know quite well) should not be (illegally) receiving disability benefits.

I just read through this entire thread and could not find anything of you saying that. I cannot find anything about any individuals that were not on this forum (and of those on the forum, none getting benefits, only some of us who are applying). If all of this was trying to complain about one case of someone who could work getting disability benefits... those do happen sometimes. They're not nearly all of them, and far more people get denied who deserve benefits than get them who don't, but they do happen sometimes. However, that doesn't change the fact that its mandatory poverty. What tends to end up happening in those cases is that they find jobs reasonably quickly when they see vocational rehab (which is how they can get out of poverty easiest), and the vocational rehab case workers tell them that they should be going for full time work immediately because they shouldn't be getting disability payments and they are capable. They actually have a reasonable time getting out of poverty when they're non-autistic disabled people, I've not heard what happens in autistic cases. My first vocational rehab agency works with some of those cases, and that's part of why they pushed so hard for me to apply for SSI.

People don't actually get on disability benefits to be lazy generally. It's because they think they don't have an alternative. Sometimes they have an alternative they didn't realize they have, and then within 6 months of finding out about that they're making more than double their benefits easily. Usually though, people are turned away who deserve the help. There are far more people denied who should be getting help, than those who get it who shouldn't.

And your overall politics doesn't matter. In this particular issue, you've aligned yourself with conservatives. That's all she said.

Quote:

There you are, claiming I said you called me evil. I said you can call me evil all you want. I did not say you called me evil. Where are you getting that from? You say I am be[ing] melodramatic; I am certainly not.

Nobody said that you said that she called you evil. Nobody called you evil. There's no talk of evil except in the too many "I didn't say that you didn't say that I didn't say" and so on stuff. This is getting far too silly.

Wandering_Stranger
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14 Jul 2012, 4:17 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:

Are you a doctor who has access to this persons' medical history and knows the ins and outs of all their medical problems? Just because someone looks normal, doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with them.

If their GP and whoever decides, (I don't know how the US system works) then how are they receiving benefits illegally?

I've been told by someone I shouldn't be on benefits. 2 tribunals and decision makers agree that I am disabled enough to receive benefits.

cavendish
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14 Jul 2012, 6:50 pm

1000Knives wrote:

cavendish wrote:

You talk well, too, why haven't you made tons and tons of money over the years? There's obviously something missing with us.

Dude makes millions a year. Obviously not based upon his ability to communicate well online.

I have had many social difficulties fitting into the workplace over the years, and the key for me, and probably many others here, is to find some niche, where ones high end skills are rewarded, and one is left alone to do his or her thing. It may be very tough to find such a place, of course.

cavendish
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14 Jul 2012, 6:53 pm

Verdandi wrote:

cavendish wrote:

This is meaningless. How intelligent and articulate one may be on the internet does not reflect how capable they are of working. It doesn't reflect an ability to consistently post well (or post at all), it doesn't reflect any other problems that may be related to typing - for example, I am frequently in pain simply due to typing. I also do not post when I am less eloquent, outside one or two occasions during which I was fighting a shutdown.

Intelligence doesn't reflect how well one can work. When disability is at play, intelligence is not a good predictor. In fact, having a higher measured IQ does not actually mean that you'll be any less impaired. Bringing it up is irrelevant.

Intelligent and articulate people should be able to find some type of work that suits them , despite any social challenges they may have. The fault is not really theirs after all, since there should be much better support and career placement services available.

cavendish
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14 Jul 2012, 6:58 pm

hanyo wrote:

cavendish wrote:

However, I must say that it quite reasonable to have considerable doubts as to the status of some here, due to the very intelligent and articulate way they present themselves in written communication.

I would never think that after being on this forum for a while. I've seen people here that seemed pretty articulate to me but were nonverbal or mostly nonverbal in real life and were pretty disabled and required a lot of support.

If I seem intelligent and articulate online that is because I have all the time I need to think about what I'm saying and to proofread and edit my post. I might not seem the same way in real life because I'm so socially anxious. In real life I've been so quiet at times I've had people think I was mute or mentally deficient.

Just because I can write a good post doesn't mean I could go out of my house all day every day and be around people I don't know and interact with them all day. It doesn't mean that I'd be able to do most jobs.

All you and others here need is one job, one career direction, and one mission in life. I am not saying it is easy, far from it in fact. Dont' give up, however, and don't pin your hopes on the future with the government

Even though I manage to write posts when I was in school writing essays and stuff like that was very difficult for me and something I mostly managed to avoid.

All you and others here need is one job, one career direction, and one mission in life. I am not saying it is easy, far from it in fact. Don't give up, however, and don't pin your hopes on the future with the government helping you in any meaningful way.

cavendish
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14 Jul 2012, 7:06 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

cavendish wrote:

So if one can type intelligent and articulately they cannot possibly have a disability that makes them unable to hold a job? what kind of BS is that? I for one am quite a bit more articulate typing than talking, how I type hardly reflects how I socialize or how well I verbally express things. If anything being intelligent just makes it worse because then you are more aware of what your symptoms are doing and what difficulties they cause.

I mean I really wanted college to work out, but it turns out typing articulately was not enough to override the way the symptoms interfered with my ability to attend college....its ridiculous to assume being able to type well=being able to hold a job or function in the work place. Mental retardation is not the only mental disability, there are many intelligent people with severe mental issues.

So you and others are different, weird, and don't fit in socially with the mainstream types. Big deal ! I am a little weird too. I know full well that it can be difficult dealing with normal people, but don't give up hope yet, especially at your age. Forget the others, and just go off, and do your own thing.
Do you have a special skill that you can develop over time? Why don't you start a blog, or if you or others are very intelligent,( which many here seem to be) just write a book? Go get a PhD and be an intellectual nerd type, or do the geeky thing, and get into computers big -time. Above all , do something. You are much too young to be coming here, and complaining about all your problems.

1000Knives
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14 Jul 2012, 7:20 pm

cavendish wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

cavendish wrote:

There is a difference between should and reality.

Verdandi
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14 Jul 2012, 8:44 pm

cavendish wrote:

Did you even glance at the link in my post? Being intelligent does not mean being less impaired. As for social challenges, autism is not simply "social challenges" for most who are diagnosed with it.

Verdandi
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14 Jul 2012, 8:45 pm

1000Knives wrote:

There is a difference between should and reality.

The bolded part of my post that he quoted is a link to a thread that talks about impairments in intelligent autistic people. His assertion that being able to write well and being intelligent should reflect greater ability to work is simply not factual.

1000Knives
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14 Jul 2012, 8:48 pm

Verdandi wrote:

1000Knives wrote:

There is a difference between should and reality.

What I mean is, for example, there should be no traffic accidents, I mean there's lights controlling the traffic. Then why do so many people die every year from them?

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