James Holmes may have Aspergers?
24 Jul 2012, 4:30 am
However, "normal" people don't go on shooting sprees. Someone does something like this, they are almost certainly diagnosable with something.
Anyways this is what gave me the impression you were implying mentally ill people are more likely than 'normal' people to do something like that.
General studies per the mentally ill indicate they are no more likely than the general population to be associated with violence, however there are exceptions to that general research among subgroups.
The issue has been studied specifically per rampage killings, and about half of the individuals studied were formally diagnosed mentally ill and often schizophrenic. Many were reported as receiving no treatment for their mental illnesses or were not taking their prescribed medications prior to the rampage killings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/13/opinion/a-closer-look-at-rampage-killings.html
Cultural influences on this group, such as violent entertainment, seemed to have little impact. Instead, the most common factor was serious mental health problems. About half had received formal diagnosis of mental illness, often schizophrenia. More than half made threats, and a third had histories of violent behavior. Many never received treatment for mental disorders or were not monitored to keep them on their medication. Most of their rampage attacks were not sudden, impulsive acts but the culmination of years of rage, depression and mental illness. Often the failure of families, co-workers and even therapists to deal with warning signs led to catastrophic consequences.
Even with greater care in spotting mental disturbance, there can never be a perfect system. But the other crucial factor in rampage killings, access to guns, can be affected through legislation and regulation. More than half the killers, including those with histories of hospitalization for mental illness, were able to buy guns easily. While federal law prohibits the sale of guns to those who have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, most states do not conduct background checks on a purchaser's psychiatric history.
The more notable recent rampage killings have been carried out by young adult males, however the research that was done prior to the year 2000 indicates that most were middle age males.
Considering that his mother was a psychiatric nurse, it's not likely that an autism spectrum disorder would have gone undetected during Holmes youth. It is pretty obvious that he is a delusional individual, by any reasonable observation, regardless of what potential diagnosis may eventually be attached to those delusions.
It's not impossible that someone like him presenting the behavior he is currently presenting would have an autism spectrum disorder, as the ICD10 acknowledges that Aspergers is associated with psychotic breaks from reality in young adulthood, in some cases.
I think it is likely that the parents may be able to contribute more information to the authorities regarding his mental health, but the general public may not ever become aware of those details, if they are not presented as part of the case. If he wasn't drugged in the courtroom today, it appeared he was not sharing the same reality with the rest of the people in that room, nor was he making any attempt to hide it.
24 Jul 2012, 4:48 am
There are some experts that have suggested that the legalization of the sale of semi-automatic weapons in the US, have had an impact in the uptick of the body count of rampage killings in the last couple of decades, but it's hard to prove cause and effect, other than more bullets provided in a shorter period of time do have the potential to injure more individuals. That's common sense. The question becomes would they have had access to illegal weapons if the legal weapons were not available. It appears Holmes was a resourceful individual. It couldn't do much more damage than hurting people's feelings, that want to purchase more, if the semi-automatic weapons were banned for sale again. Along with a reduction of federal excise taxes that are heavy on the sale of those weapons.
The Batman movie appears to have played a role as an associated factor in this incidence, but it's hard to say what an alternate reality of exposure to cultural influences would have provided as far as a different result. The research done so far does not indicate that violence in the media plays a major role in rampage killings, but it has been evidenced in some cases as an associated factor.
Research so far, provides evidence that mental illness is the largest associated factor, in rampage killings, as evidenced in my last post.
24 Jul 2012, 4:58 am
Here it is.
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24 Jul 2012, 5:01 am
I really hope he doesn't have Asperger's, because the media would focus on that and it would probably do a lot of damage to the aspie community. Ignorant people might start thinking Asperger's could lead to crime.
I want to make clear that a disorder can never be a direct cause of criminal behavior. Some disorders might make it more likely for you to commit some sort of crime, but there are a lot of intermediate processes between having a disorder and committing a crime. For example, many (undiagnosed) psychopaths have never committed a crime even though having the disorder makes you (a little) more likely to commit one. Being a criminology student, I have done some research on the prevalence of crime among people with autism. Though there are few studies, most seem to imply that people with (classical) autism are even likely than "normal" people to become involved in crime and people with Asperger's syndrome are no more likely than others to commit a crime. Unfortunately, the media seem to think otherwise.
24 Jul 2012, 6:01 am
ill say this much (and yes i have been diagnosed with AS) when i was 17 after experiencing years upon years of peer induced hell in school from 1st grade on i finally snapped when i was 17 and nearly made a big mistake akin to columbine. thankfully things worked out the best they could and looking back on what i nearly did (im now 30) it could of been a horrible mistake but plain and simple, Asperger's does not mean innocent nor does it mean psychopathic, every person has their breaking point and some go to more extremes than others. in my case no one got hurt and i spent 6 months in a juvenile facility. i guess what im trying to say is there are those of us with extremely intense emotions that lack an outlet and when tortured long enough even the most timid will lash back. ill revisit this later after i get some sleep as it is nearly 7am here and im still awake but people need to stop viewing AS as some kind of gift or burden, it is what it is and its not black and white, given the appropriate circumstances anything can happen.
p.s. im not saying he was bullied by his peers but there are those out there that see the world as falling to s**t and it can drag them and their mentality down with it or it could even stem from them witnessing atrocities happening to others who knows im just saying with the intense emotions and inability to constructively express them with many who have AS i wouldn't be the least bit surprised that under the right circumstances where normally someone likely an NT might throw a fist or shout an AS with the same degree of inner pain and frustration is likely to take things way out of proportion and to extremes, at least this is what i've noticed in not only my youngr self but many i know personally with AS. ill be back later or feel free to contact me on facebook as i am horrible at trying to organize and express my thoughts in anything outside of real time conversation. thank you
http://www.facebook.com/Alishaneder.D.Rychder
now i attempt to sleep
24 Jul 2012, 7:09 am
However, "normal" people don't go on shooting sprees. Someone does something like this, they are almost certainly diagnosable with something.
I disagree, that is exactly the sort of generalization that keeps the stigma against mental illness going. Why cant a normal person commit such a crime? I mean I don't belive they are over all morally superior to mentally ill people or that they cannot do horrible things. Just look at Nazi Germany or the Salem Witch trials. You want to say everyone involved in things like that were 'messed up in the head.'
Now I understand the sort of logic behind the comment that one girl made to me during a lock down.....I was 'quiet', 'different', 'smart' and a loner(though not by choice) so she was surprised I wasn't the psychopath with the gun. When it is a mentally ill person who does it though maybe its this sort of stigma that alienates them even further. But being filled with hate and killing is not a mental illness it is unfortunately something all humans are capable of.
I don't think it has to do with morals but rather the type of crime. People with no mental illness at all commit horrible violence but of a different type. If it's one individual against another individual, there tends to be a motive such as money or anger. There is also the tribal violence that you cite of one group attacking another group (Nazis) or one group attacking individuals (Salem Witch trials). People start wondering about mental illness when a violent crime doesn't fit into either of these two very large categories that most other violence does.
I would put gang violence, terrorism and all attacks against people who belong to a disliked group in the tribal violence category.
So I don't think bringing up mental illness posibility is because this was violent- violence is very common- but because it deviates from the "normal" violence that has a mundane motive or is tribal/group violence. Since Holmes' defense team has literally no other possible defense to use, expect this to be discussed in all media for the entire trial. All we're really doing now is guessing at which mental illness his defense team will use. But mark my words, they absolutely will use one. And whichever one they pick will be part of the public discourse for months, whether it is accurate or not.
Last edited by Janissy on 24 Jul 2012, 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
24 Jul 2012, 7:11 am
I'm not sure if Holmes has Asperger's but within an hour of hearing this story I knew the media would eventually jump to this conclusion. In Australia the man who was responsible for the Victorian bushfire had HFA and couldn't put out a fire in his car, yet the media labels him as the most dangerous killer in history. Or something to that effect. Because people died and thousands of dollars of property was damaged they needed someone to blame, even though it was caused by an accident.
Also, I can understand why people snap after being bullied. After being almost mugged my paranoia has sky rocketed so much I think I might end up hurting someone innocent, because I think everyone out there is going to get me.
I think his behaviour could have been caused by stress and drugs. After completing a neuroscience Phd he still couldn't get a job. That's got to be a real blow to your self esteem. He could have been AS, APD, ADHD or any of those other disorders or even NT.
It's horrible what happened and I'm just glad I live in a country where guns are banned. The criminals shoot each other and there's never been any attack on this scale. I'm not even sure our marines use AR-15s.
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24 Jul 2012, 7:15 am
I know psychopathy
Aspies who go bad..... get relabelled sociopaths... after the fact
Until the cinema shootings he was a choir boy.... and into Batman!!
Sociopaths (the environmentally triggered psychopath) are also masters at deception.
I'm not sure if he is, or if AS. All I know is I know people that get f***ed up on drugs. Let's just say I wonder whether they have AS, ADHD or Bipolar - and then I remember the cocktail of drugs and alcohol they've been on for the last 20 years.
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24 Jul 2012, 7:26 am
The Batman movie appears to have played a role as an associated factor in this incidence, but it's hard to say what an alternate reality of exposure to cultural influences would have provided as far as a different result. The research done so far does not indicate that violence in the media plays a major role in rampage killings, but it has been evidenced in some cases as an associated factor.
Research so far, provides evidence that mental illness is the largest associated factor, in rampage killings, as evidenced in my last post.
semi-automatic weapons have never been illegal in the US. There was an "assault weapons ban" that ban certain semi-automatics because of appearance and also limited the number of rounds a magazine could hold but it was ironically his "high capacity" magazine that may have jammed his rife.
I'm not sure that magazine capacity is really much of a limiting factor with semi-auto. Full auto when you're using it for cover fire or the such yes but not semi. One can change a magazine to a fresh one really fast. As far as that goes I can load my pump shotgun as fast as I can shoot it.
24 Jul 2012, 7:31 am
This is similar. Yet we struggle to accept our own can become heinous murderers
In new zealand we have recently been promoting anti bullying measures [esp, regarding facebook, texting and social media]
due the the high incidence of young people committing suicide after being bullied publicly via websites
recently groups of young people [who know each other, from small towns] have been killing themselves
one by one over the space of a few months....
I sincerely hope progressive measures are implemented.
Otherwise bullycide and mass murders will become more frequent in our societies.... 'normal' 'aspie' or 'whatever'
I don't know that bullyicide is relevent here, as it was in Columbine. The media has so far uncovered nothing in his past pointing to bullying. You can't assume this was bullycide just because everyone so far interviewed says he was a quiet, smart loner. However, if there is anything like that in his past, the media and his defense team will find it.
24 Jul 2012, 7:37 am
However, "normal" people don't go on shooting sprees. Someone does something like this, they are almost certainly diagnosable with something.
Anyways this is what gave me the impression you were implying mentally ill people are more likely than 'normal' people to do something like that.
Normal people don't go on shooting sprees unless they are a member of a group that is doing that. I don't think this is "capacity for violence" versus "inherently non-violent" but rather the way in which the violence happens. People with no mental problems at all have barged into crowded areas and shot the place up. But that happens just in the context of tribal violence: group A attacking group B. If he was a member of a terrorist group and his armed terrorist friends were with him, mental illness would never be mentioned.
24 Jul 2012, 8:01 am
accidentally deleted
_________________
Knowing / that I could walk seventeen miles through a ravine / in the heart of Toronto,
and never / directly see the city/ is of some comfort
Last edited by Mayel on 24 Jul 2012, 8:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sweetleaf
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24 Jul 2012, 8:05 am
Not if you're referring to actual psychosis as that certainly is not a state of mind that typically would last for months or leave one with the ability to carefully plan out a theater massacre. But if you mean psychotic in the general public use of the word way then maybe, but I doubt most people who plan out things like this and carry it out are in a state of psychosis based on the psychology classes I've taken and other information I've read.
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Sweetleaf
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24 Jul 2012, 8:09 am
I want to make clear that a disorder can never be a direct cause of criminal behavior. Some disorders might make it more likely for you to commit some sort of crime, but there are a lot of intermediate processes between having a disorder and committing a crime. For example, many (undiagnosed) psychopaths have never committed a crime even though having the disorder makes you (a little) more likely to commit one. Being a criminology student, I have done some research on the prevalence of crime among people with autism. Though there are few studies, most seem to imply that people with (classical) autism are even likely than "normal" people to become involved in crime and people with Asperger's syndrome are no more likely than others to commit a crime. Unfortunately, the media seem to think otherwise.
Uhh the only problem with that is psychopath is not an actual diagnoses...the closest disorder to psychopathy would be Anti-Social PD, but most people with that disorder don't go around shooting people either. Also considering aspergers is a type of autism I am skeptical that people with autism are more likely than other people with autism to commit crimes based on having autism.
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