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sonofghandi
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11 Sep 2014, 8:23 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Do humans have a "sixth sense" (i.e., you can sense someone looking at you despite not being directly aware of it)? You turn around and look right at the person as if you had a supernatural sense that this person was staring at you. I notice this. My brain is getting information I am not conscious of and it does not fit the five senses.

How do you use science to verify the "supernatural"?


It is not so much supernatural as the fact that your brain processes a massive amount of information about your surroundings without bothering to consult the part of your brain that does the thinking. Everything a person does affects their surroundings, and it is quite likely that your brain has figured out how the subtle differences come about. Many things that are "supernatural" already have scientific explanations and more are explained all the time. Assuming that we haven't figured out the why is the same as supernatural is problematic.

For example, we now can explain (from a neuroscience stand point) much of the near death experience accounts. A large portion has to do with lack of oxygen to the brain and what basically is the equivalent of a neurological reboot. That doesn't make the experience feel any less real to those who experienced it, but it also removes the supernatural aspect of it.


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11 Sep 2014, 9:27 am

The problem with the bible and other religious texts is that it was written by man. The Bible was written many years ago and has undergone many revisions and translations. Even with the best will in the world no one can realistically expect it is an accurate representation of the 'will of God', even if you were to believe in such things. At best it is an interpretation.

There are of course many conspiracy theories that various documents and Scriptures were left out of the Bible when it was compiled at the first Council of Nicaea something around AD 300. Whilst there is no specific evidence of this, given the councils purpose was to bring different Christian sects together is hard to believe no compromises were made. Also when you look at it many Christian dates and traditions were taken from other religions and pagan festivals. So that in itself suggests some creative writing was involved.

The way I see it faith is one thing, but religion is about controlling an influencing it's members.



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11 Sep 2014, 9:30 am

yournamehere wrote:
I'm sorry. Something must have been misinterpreted. I do not view fantasy as negative. It can be practical.


You said:

Quote:
I detest the fact that dreams, and hallucinations are a fantasy.


I infer from this that fantasies are detestable to you.

Quote:
All the other things you are asking me is quite confusing to me. I must think differently, or something? The whole dream recording thing is a neat idea, however it does not interperate actual feelings, intent, reason, or the connection being made within yourself in relation to the outside world. What is going on in your dreams is more than just a movie. Another statement that people can go gung ho about I'm sure.


You have a habit of building men of straw then making ineffectual arguments to dispute them. Nobody has stated that dreams are just movies.

Quote:
As far as your last question? I guess I don't see a problem? I don't see me having a problem?


I was referring to this:

Quote:
I have a personal problem with this way of thinking. here is something just for fun again. I detest the fact that dreams, and hallucinations are a fantasy.


You have demonstrated a lack of understanding of the purpose and methodology of science. I and several others have laid it out on a plate yet you continue to argue against a viewpoint that simply doesn't exist outside your imagination.

Quote:
I may not know how to answer the rest of your last question proplerly, because it may be misinterpreted. My "way of thinking" is like the god spot theory. Autistics, and many NT people may have underdeveloped parts of the mind. Some parts being very much stronger than others. There are people here right now reading this, and writing back to me, who think the same way, possibly even in the form of mobbing, perhaps even adding a personality disorder into the mix to make things worse, who are very "right side" thinkers. I see it time, and time again on this site. Very scientific, extremely practicle people. However there are other people on here who do have other views, and actually think differently. People who naturally think they are part of a whole, and outside themselves. Part of something greater than themselves. This is how my mind works. Naturally seeing god as an answer. For us, it is. There are people here who want to crush the god theory. The "god spot". Kicking them to the curb. Autistics! People who come here for support! Spreading the word, because it is a natural thing for them! Personality disordered people, and others on here, smashing them to pieces, with little to no compassion. It is quite sickening. I have said many things on this post, not only as a way to try to interpret my way of thinking, and my reality, but also in order for people to read this post as an example of the sickness that is going on in this autism website. Even a moderator has his hands in it. He enjoys it. If he was an actual Buddhist like he claims to be, someone would tell him to shave his head, and shutup for a year. My way of thinking makes me who and what I am. It is not a choice. God is the answer for me. Without this way of thinking, I would be a tomato. Instead, I have accomplished many things, and have done more than thousands of things I never would have thought were possible. Because I imagine it. Because I believe. My thoughts and feelings come together, and go out. for me, it is what it is, and I don't expect you to understand. In fact, I forgive you, because some cannot. I have just as much a difficult time trying to interpret this totalitarian view of everything being scientific, and the atheism, no god theory, being practical and real. However, I do understand there is a difference. Like night, and lite. If it actually worked in harmony there would be a day. I need to stay away from this site for a while.


This rant demonstrates that I have made a mistake in trying to respond to you in earnest. The PPR sub-forum is not a support group for the delusional. Any ideas you post here can and will be challenged on their merits. If you find reasoned debate "sickening", you should probably avoid PPR altogether.

Quote:
I have no intention to answer anymore questions, or have people try and dismember me, to leave me in pieces all over the floor. like some here do, and get away with alot more than they should. It did not work anyways. I am stronger. I realize even more. End of game. I am out. Have a great day.


And to wrap up this appeal to emotion we end with a textbook example of victim mentality. Cheerio then.



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11 Sep 2014, 10:05 am

When one develops one's mind WELL enough; when all parts of it are working, per the process of epigenetics and neuroplasticity; parts of the mind do awaken to perceive more of the reality of nature that is GOD as metaphor.

Super scientific is a better analogy than Super natural as the Super Natural metaphor indicates something above nature when in reality it is just something beyond the understanding of science.

All science is, is the scribe GOD aka as ALL IT IS; the Alpha and Omega; boy, that list of metaphors is really long for GOD including Sacred Love that is already the understanding of science that we are ALL connected to everything in the Universe by how we are put together not by just the materialistic reductionist view of the elements that we are as human being. Not just my idea as already documented in this thread. Yes, the idea of Carl Sagan and the historical early reported words in sacred text of what the man Yeshua truly reportedly said per nature well beyond the revised modern versions of the New Testament.

God or the ALL IT IS aka SACRED LOVE per the interconnectedness of ALL IT IS is amazing; but seriously life is short and only a fool, in my opinion, will not take the opportunities that do exist per the fuller potential reality of this Natural GOD that yes, can be realized, for us truly to be Supermen in metaphor; not unlike what the mystical teachings of Yeshua as stated are or the more literal sounding words of Friedrich Nietzsche.

There is no way to be a 'Superman' per Mr. Nietzsche?s philosophy or Mr. 'Christ's' philosophy without the power of FREE will; yes relative free will, in controlling one's bodily functions with the highest power of human potential, by the emotive powers of emotions that do exist in natural reality known as belief, faith and hope.

The mustard seed analogy is a good one; and in my life my faith in me and belief that I can do what folks say I cannot do, with my hope I can do it and will JUST DO IT and the natural GOD that exists everywhere all the time all the now that is now forevermorenow (a metaphor for reality where there is never negative thought or intention, where perception of weighted time to bring a person down does not exist) is as real as the nose on my face; but to use a couple of other metaphors in reality, yes natural reality that the scribe of science lags sadly behind on; the truth is this, and yes science does provide many analogies of studies that indicate it is true:

Some folks cannot smell GOD, taste GOD, see GOD, hear GOD, or touch GOD.

God does not work like that with human prescribed limitations; GOD is way beyond our natural five senses; they are only basic elements of human being; some people have not developed the full human potential, for perhaps innate and or environmental reasons, but this higher power that is all natural that is the interconnectedness of all things that makes the whole 'thing' work in relative balance that we can gain mastery over is real and even at least partially proven as true, by scientific studies of real life Yogi's who can steam their own internal temperature heat off of robes in icy waters.

Science didn't think that was possible until they found someone who believed it was possible and effected it in their life.

This real life human potential is not much different than the man Yeshua's 'mystical' (mysteries of nature) words aka Jesus, as reported in ancient text.

Will, Faith, Belief and Hope, are not tangible materialistic scientific elements; hard to metaphor in reality for true effect and AFFECT in the layman who does not experience it; and impossible to experience IT if one has not developed the human potential to utilize emotions that are the core of what make all human beings tick, whether they are more or less robotic in mechanical cognition ways of systemizing thinking or have developed the full human potential of utilizing more of the brain in exercising mechanical and social cognition to really enjoy human being, as an unrepressed and oppressed social animal being.

And yes, with RELATIVE FREE will and focus and the development of my full social cognition abilities that extend farther out than what science currently understands I can turn folks heads by focusing on them scores of yards away, simply by connecting to their human being, with emotional contagion and my mirror neurons and likely other currently totally unknown mechanisms of our human being all natural at full potential play, with much fuller human potential.

When my emotions were gone; I had no ability to do this; it works almost every time now; as once again I have my fuller human potential as arsenal for simply being a full human being once again.

The noise of mechanical cognition is roaring in western societies, and growing in eastern societies too. The result is an unbalanced mind for many folks. There is a lot of evidence for that here. But it is no surprise as this Internet site by informal but extensive polling data is almost entirely introvert, and around 34 percent INTJ personality.

I move between ENFP and INTJ at will; yes relative free will; and the evidence of that is clear on this site as documented by my capability to do it not only in real life; but in writing too.

And no there's nothing magical about that per the supernatural; I did it with practice, practice, practice, per the original general Kung Fu philosophy far beyond just martial arts, and exposing myself and challenging myself with environmental struggle including attempting to communicate with folks who have no way of understanding my way of thinking.

I simply adapt and think like them. But no, that is thank goodness not me fully. No offense intended for anyone in this discussion by anything I am saying in this post.

Just reality; it is, for others and me too.

I challenge people to THINK AND be different, as it saved my life, heart, and soul. It really did; I have the documented evidence and clinical reports that prove it.

Yes, the soul part too, as one of my clinicians has one; not all people do; sadly as reality and GOD at times does not seem fair, at ALL.

But I don't totally rule that potential of science and all of nature that is GOD either; as I have seen the potential balancing effect of what can be and is described as Karma up close and personal. Trust me, if I am correct on that, my advice is to start treating ALL folks like FULL human beings WITH COMPASSION. But I have no concrete evidence as true human hell is beyond any worded description.

I promise you this.

You don't want to go there; if I'm not the only that's been there. And no, I don't wish that real human hell on anyone; and yes it gives me the empathy of 14.5 billion years, to use an evolutionary metaphor too, in jest and reality true, too. :);)!


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11 Sep 2014, 11:44 am

adifferentname wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
I'm sorry. Something must have been misinterpreted. I do not view fantasy as negative. It can be practical.


You said:

Quote:
I detest the fact that dreams, and hallucinations are a fantasy.


I infer from this that fantasies are detestable to you.

Quote:
All the other things you are asking me is quite confusing to me. I must think differently, or something? The whole dream recording thing is a neat idea, however it does not interperate actual feelings, intent, reason, or the connection being made within yourself in relation to the outside world. What is going on in your dreams is more than just a movie. Another statement that people can go gung ho about I'm sure.


You have a habit of building men of straw then making ineffectual arguments to dispute them. Nobody has stated that dreams are just movies.

Quote:
As far as your last question? I guess I don't see a problem? I don't see me having a problem?


I was referring to this:

Quote:
I have a personal problem with this way of thinking. here is something just for fun again. I detest the fact that dreams, and hallucinations are a fantasy.


You have demonstrated a lack of understanding of the purpose and methodology of science. I and several others have laid it out on a plate yet you continue to argue against a viewpoint that simply doesn't exist outside your imagination.

Quote:
I may not know how to answer the rest of your last question proplerly, because it may be misinterpreted. My "way of thinking" is like the god spot theory. Autistics, and many NT people may have underdeveloped parts of the mind. Some parts being very much stronger than others. There are people here right now reading this, and writing back to me, who think the same way, possibly even in the form of mobbing, perhaps even adding a personality disorder into the mix to make things worse, who are very "right side" thinkers. I see it time, and time again on this site. Very scientific, extremely practicle people. However there are other people on here who do have other views, and actually think differently. People who naturally think they are part of a whole, and outside themselves. Part of something greater than themselves. This is how my mind works. Naturally seeing god as an answer. For us, it is. There are people here who want to crush the god theory. The "god spot". Kicking them to the curb. Autistics! People who come here for support! Spreading the word, because it is a natural thing for them! Personality disordered people, and others on here, smashing them to pieces, with little to no compassion. It is quite sickening. I have said many things on this post, not only as a way to try to interpret my way of thinking, and my reality, but also in order for people to read this post as an example of the sickness that is going on in this autism website. Even a moderator has his hands in it. He enjoys it. If he was an actual Buddhist like he claims to be, someone would tell him to shave his head, and shutup for a year. My way of thinking makes me who and what I am. It is not a choice. God is the answer for me. Without this way of thinking, I would be a tomato. Instead, I have accomplished many things, and have done more than thousands of things I never would have thought were possible. Because I imagine it. Because I believe. My thoughts and feelings come together, and go out. for me, it is what it is, and I don't expect you to understand. In fact, I forgive you, because some cannot. I have just as much a difficult time trying to interpret this totalitarian view of everything being scientific, and the atheism, no god theory, being practical and real. However, I do understand there is a difference. Like night, and lite. If it actually worked in harmony there would be a day. I need to stay away from this site for a while.


This rant demonstrates that I have made a mistake in trying to respond to you in earnest. The PPR sub-forum is not a support group for the delusional. Any ideas you post here can and will be challenged on their merits. If you find reasoned debate "sickening", you should probably avoid PPR altogether.

Quote:
I have no intention to answer anymore questions, or have people try and dismember me, to leave me in pieces all over the floor. like some here do, and get away with alot more than they should. It did not work anyways. I am stronger. I realize even more. End of game. I am out. Have a great day.


And to wrap up this appeal to emotion we end with a textbook example of victim mentality. Cheerio then.


This seems to be another prime example of difficulty with emotional intelligence. Yes, emotional intelligence is a real scientifically documented human valuable and very necessary attribute for social animal survival; just not well understood as it ebbs and flows; it's not something that can be measured with tools of measurement per true full AFFECT, in concrete measure, if you will.

You are taking "yournamehere's" words here literally, apparently, by your responses here, and it seems you may not understanding the emotional content of his 'metaphored'' words as applicable in his written text.

Example #1

"I detest the fact that dreams, and hallucinations are a fantasy"

This statement means people do not give dreams practical merit in life. It doesn't mean that he thinks that fantasy is negative. The word fantasy is being used as metaphor to describe as non-practical metaphor that some folks apply to dreams of not having merit for improving one's overall human being, in real life.

Example #2

"All the other things you are asking me is quite confusing to me. I must think differently, or something? The whole dream recording thing is a neat idea, however it does not interperate actual feelings, intent, reason, or the connection being made within yourself in relation to the outside world. What is going on in your dreams is more than just a movie. Another statement that people can go gung ho about I'm sure."

He is using the movie phrase as metaphor that dreams are more than moving pictures and suggesting someone may go gun ho about the fact that he said it; but no he's not literally saying anyone actually said it.

Example #3

"As far as your last question? I guess I don't see a problem? I don't see me having a problem?"

(I was referring to this:)

"I have a personal problem with this way of thinking. here is something just for fun again. I detest the fact that dreams, and hallucinations are a fantasy."

Having a personal problem with something is not the same as having an inherent personal problem like a flawed personality, as such. In other words, he has a personal problem with the way other folks are thinking. That's not his personal problem, he's just suggesting it bothers him that folks think this way; and yes for good reason as Freud and Jung's ideology of human archetypes in dreams is making a big come back in real science today, per a recent article in discovery magazine.

Example #4

(You have demonstrated a lack of understanding of the purpose and methodology of science. I and several others have laid it out on a plate yet you continue to argue against a viewpoint that simply doesn't exist outside your imagination.}

Dude, this is a PPR forum, not a science forum; nor is it a debate forum, as set up by the owner of the site here it is a forum for discussion to discuss all the possibilities with religion and philosophy, as well as politics that go well beyond the realm of the scientific method. Just because some folks seem to be limited to that very limited way of thinking in regard to all of social human animal nature, per philosophy and religion and even politics too, that yes does include emotional intelligence as even science now shows emotions are the core motivator of rational thinking, certainly does not mean your ideas have any more merit in this particular forum that theirs do; as it is technically not limited to the scientific method, again. as this is neither a debate or science forum.

That seems to be common sense to me; but perhaps it involves emotional intelligence to understand that; I have no idea why specifically you think this way, and am not suggesting I do. I can only generalize from what I know from extensive experience with dealing with tens of thousands of real flesh and blood human beings in my real decades long career in working with actual human beings; yes, including interacting with autistic folks long before I was diagnosed, in mid-life, too.

Example #5


(This rant demonstrates that I have made a mistake in trying to respond to you in earnest. The PPR sub-forum is not a support group for the delusional. Any ideas you post here can and will be challenged on their merits. If you find reasoned debate "sickening", you should probably avoid PPR altogether.)

Again this is a discussion forum for Religion, Philosophy and Politics, just because you and around 2 percent of the rest of the world do not believe in the potential of a higher force known as the metaphor of GOD, ruling it out completely, does not necessarily mean that they are the delusional ones and you and the rest of the 2 percent are not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

It's hard to fool mother nature. Things work out the way they do as they work for reproduction. It's not surprising that atheists aren't reproducing like the non-atheist folks are according to scientific statistics. This is true NATURAL success, not idle chit chat, to use another metaphorical phrase. Action does most definitely speak louder than words. And yes, this is part of the religion and philosophy; the most integral part of all; human being and basic human survival at the core level of human being success.

Example #6

" have no intention to answer anymore questions, or have people try and dismember me, to leave me in pieces all over the floor. like some here do, and get away with alot more than they should. It did not work anyways. I am stronger. I realize even more. End of game. I am out. Have a great day."

(And to wrap up this appeal to emotion we end with a textbook example of victim mentality. Cheerio then.)

Dude he is clearly saying here that your weak attempts at personally attacking him are not working; he is leaving as it is no longer constructive for him to be here; and not only that he is now even a stronger person.

You then twist his words to say he is a victim rather than the victor

That is perhaps the weakest attempt at personally attacking another human being I've ever witnessed. The words are right there for everyone to see.

Stronger means victor not victim. I don't think a major in science is required to understand that, and have a hard time believe you don't but i'm not ruling it out.

But anyway, the fact is, even if this were a real big league debate forum; many of the people here will immediately lose and be kicked out of the debating ring, as they can only resort to personal attacks when they do not have the logical ability to provide logical instead of emotionalized debate.

Personal attacks are at the lowest level of logical debate. The bottom of the pyramid if you will, stifling the real purpose of focused intellectual and passionate debate; learning something new. Not proving one is right or superior to the other person, per those individuals who may have some type of deep seated inferiority complexes of some kind, as documented in the science of psychology, per this studied phenomenon of human behavior, too.

The only reason it works, as it really doesn't as the only people that come here and stay here are the ones with thick skin like me that ignore it like a buzzing fly, is there is no with one with the time or concern to moderate it out. This entire forum is skewed in opinion because of that one factor alone. And even with that said, the Boston University Study done in this exact same PPR forum suggests only 26% of folks are atheists. If personal attacks were moderated out, it would likely be no different than the other so called NT forum at 17% percent studied where personal attacks are not allowed. But the study didn't look into that detail; perhaps I'm doing another one, informally here 'write' now. And in general the internet as a whole is skewed as it is more of a mechanical cognition medium that real life flesh and blood social communication that is steeped in deep flesh and blood non-verbal communication comprising 60 to 93 percent of all of human reciprocal communication, resulting in lower levels of overall empathy, online, overall, per the part of the brain that 'sees' the metaphor of GOD, to use another sensory metaphor.

There is no way that a person without a high level of emotional intelligence can be an effective debater; it requires the ability to regulate emotions and refrain from personal attacks. And yes, emotional intelligence is not just about having emotions as the high levels of emotions that are always responsible for personal attacks run as high or higher than anywhere on the internet, here. Emotional intelligence means regulating emotions, and yes refraining from personal attacks and keeping things civil for reasoned and logical debate, even in PPR where discussing the emotional elements of philosophy and religion are a prerequisite to gain a greater understanding of the overall human condition.

Yes, it would be nice if the rules of civil debate could be enforced here, but they are not, for whatever reasons; apparently it seems to me, mostly the reality that the help is at will volunteer help, with no real effective reward or enough 'man' power to effectively moderate it like that; so this cannot be an effective forum for debate.

But for folks with basic human ethics, it would nice to see other folks treated like human beings, and not objects in the environment to manipulate at will.

This is all my opinion. but per basic human ethics, I do believe it's well over due that someone takes the time and effort to fully address it here, as best they can. I would love for someone who CARES to elaborate more. But without CARE, that potential is negated, per the 'science' of philosophy and yes RELIGION too.


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11 Sep 2014, 1:57 pm

aghogday wrote:
This seems to be another prime example of difficulty with emotional intelligence. Yes, emotional intelligence is a real scientifically documented human valuable and very necessary attribute for social animal survival; just not well understood as it ebbs and flows; it's not something that can be measured with tools of measurement per true full AFFECT, in concrete measure, if you will.


You're entitled to your opinion. You are, of course, in no position to evaluate my EQ. One cannot apply emotional intelligence sans context, else one will make mistakes. As a rule in PPR I take every word typed at face value, unless indicated otherwise. This practice is the best possible way to prevent misunderstandings, though obviously no method is perfect.

Quote:
You are taking "yournamehere's" words here literally, apparently, by your responses here, and it seems you may not understanding the emotional content of his 'metaphored'' words as applicable in his written text.

Example #1

"I detest the fact that dreams, and hallucinations are a fantasy"

This statement means people do not give dreams practical merit in life. It doesn't mean that he thinks that fantasy is negative. The word fantasy is being used as metaphor to describe as non-practical metaphor that some folks apply to dreams of not having merit for improving one's overall human being, in real life.


Actually no. I am addressing the metaphor and questioning why he considers it to be negative. Re-read what you just directly quoted. "I detest that [they] are a fantasy." Contextually he cannot mean that he regrets that they are not real as he continues with "They are in fact very real". Therefore he believes that calling dreams a fantasy is somehow degrading. In other words, his perception is that a fantasy is a negative thing.

Quote:
Example #2

"All the other things you are asking me is quite confusing to me. I must think differently, or something? The whole dream recording thing is a neat idea, however it does not interperate actual feelings, intent, reason, or the connection being made within yourself in relation to the outside world. What is going on in your dreams is more than just a movie. Another statement that people can go gung ho about I'm sure."

He is using the movie phrase as metaphor that dreams are more than moving pictures and suggesting someone may go gun ho about the fact that he said it; but no he's not literally saying anyone actually said it.


When one refutes a claim that has not been made, that person has committed a logical fallacy regardless of any metaphorical content within said claim. I was not literally saying that he said anyone had actually said it either. Ironic, no?

Quote:
Example #3

"As far as your last question? I guess I don't see a problem? I don't see me having a problem?"

(I was referring to this:)

"I have a personal problem with this way of thinking. here is something just for fun again. I detest the fact that dreams, and hallucinations are a fantasy."

Having a personal problem with something is not the same as having an inherent personal problem like a flawed personality, as such. In other words, he has a personal problem with the way other folks are thinking. That's not his personal problem, he's just suggesting it bothers him that folks think this way; and yes for good reason as Freud and Jung's ideology of human archetypes in dreams is making a big come back in real science today, per a recent article in discovery magazine.


You've made the same mistake he did. Try reading the conversation again.

Quote:
Example #4

(You have demonstrated a lack of understanding of the purpose and methodology of science. I and several others have laid it out on a plate yet you continue to argue against a viewpoint that simply doesn't exist outside your imagination.}

Dude, this is a PPR forum, not a science forum; nor is it a debate forum, as set up by the owner of the site here it is a forum for discussion to discuss all the possibilities with religion and philosophy, as well as politics that go well beyond the realm of the scientific method. Just because some folks seem to be limited to that very limited way of thinking in regard to all of social human animal nature, per philosophy and religion and even politics too, that yes does include emotional intelligence as even science now shows emotions are the core motivator of rational thinking, certainly does not mean your ideas have any more merit in this particular forum that theirs do; as it is technically not limited to the scientific method, again. as this is neither a debate or science forum.


If you'd bothered to read the entire thread, you would realise that I was responding to his criticism of the scientific method. This is not the aghogday forum where you get to tell people what they can and cannot respond to, or how they should respond. This is however a forum of debate.

From the stickied post atop this forum:

"This is a special forum. It is for debating and as such pretty much anything goes provided it stays within the site rules and the following guidelines. It is more or less freedom of speech. It doesn't matter if some people have obnoxious or ill-informed opinions regarding politics, religion or virtually anything else. People can debate and criticize any religion, atheism, political party, public figures etc. Just because some members may belong to a particular religion (or atheism) or political party, does not exclude it from debate. If people want to criticize atheism that is fine. Criticise Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Paganism, Confucianism, Judaism, Satanism, Scientology etc all fine too."

Quote:
That seems to be common sense to me; but perhaps it involves emotional intelligence to understand that; I have no idea why specifically you think this way, and am not suggesting I do. I can only generalize from what I know from extensive experience with dealing with tens of thousands of real flesh and blood human beings in my real decades long career in working with actual human beings; yes, including interacting with autistic folks long before I was diagnosed, in mid-life, too.


You've just demonstrated perfectly why subjective "common sense" is not without its pitfalls when making decisions. Also, I'm quite certain you have very little insight into, or understanding of the machinations of my mind. It's cute that you're trying though.

Quote:
Example #5

(This rant demonstrates that I have made a mistake in trying to respond to you in earnest. The PPR sub-forum is not a support group for the delusional. Any ideas you post here can and will be challenged on their merits. If you find reasoned debate "sickening", you should probably avoid PPR altogether.)

Again this is a discussion forum for Religion, Philosophy and Politics, just because you and around 2 percent of the rest of the world do not believe in the potential of a higher force known as the metaphor of GOD, ruling it out completely, does not necessarily mean that they are the delusional ones and you and the rest of the 2 percent are not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

It's hard to fool mother nature. Things work out the way they do as they work for reproduction. It's not surprising that atheists aren't reproducing like the non-atheist folks are according to scientific statistics. This is true NATURAL success, not idle chit chat, to use another metaphorical phrase. Action does most definitely speak louder than words. And yes, this is part of the religion and philosophy; the most integral part of all; human being and basic human survival at the core level of human being success.


Firstly, non-religious people (including those who identify as atheists) make up nearly 20% of the human population of our planet. That's more than any single denomination of any religion. Secondly, at no point did I state that he was delusional because of his religious beliefs.

Finally, religious belief is not a genetic trait.

Quote:
Example #6

" have no intention to answer anymore questions, or have people try and dismember me, to leave me in pieces all over the floor. like some here do, and get away with alot more than they should. It did not work anyways. I am stronger. I realize even more. End of game. I am out. Have a great day."

(And to wrap up this appeal to emotion we end with a textbook example of victim mentality. Cheerio then.)

Dude he is clearly saying here that your weak attempts at personally attacking him are not working; he is leaving as it is no longer constructive for him to be here; and not only that he is now even a stronger person.

You then twist his words to say he is a victim rather than the victor

That is perhaps the weakest attempt at personally attacking another human being I've ever witnessed. The words are right there for everyone to see.


The part I've bolded speaks for itself. But feel free to report me for a "personal attack".

Quote:
Stronger means victor not victim. I don't think a major in science is required to understand that, and have a hard time believe you don't but i'm not ruling it out.


Ah, so we're going for literal interpretation now? You could at least pretend to remain logically consistent.

As for the remainder of your post, where you climbed atop your soapbox yet somehow managed to refrain from self-aggrandising as overtly as you normally do, I believe it dignifies the following response and nothing more:

:roll:



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11 Sep 2014, 8:16 pm

First of all, thank you for your response.

Second of all, to attempt to clarify and validate communication. I made the suggestion that there could be an issue with emotional intelligence here specific to taking social communication literally, instead of understanding the metaphorical meanings of the English language otherwise known as the ability to read between the lines.

You clarified that you do take actual effort here to only read words at face value, which is a literal interpretation of the English Language.

I provided a non-literal interpretation; in other words, yournamehere's comments with me reading between the lines.

You then went on to provide your literal interpretation again suggesting that the way you read it was the only way it could reasonably be interpreted. Well, yes, I agree if one was to take it at face value based on their own life experiences only, that is a reasonable statement; however, that is not either how the English Language is designed or effectively used in Reciprocal Social Communication.

Moreover, yournamehere, already clarified your interpretation was not his intent in using the language he used to describe his opinion, so at this point your literal interpretation is a moot point, as he already clarified your interpretation was not his intent, and therefore not valid in effective reciprocal social communication. Doesn't mean you are wrong; just means the interpretation was not valid.

I undertand your need to read language at face value as to not make errors in judgement, but never the less, in reading reciprocal communication at face value errors are going to occur no matter what as the English language is a metaphorical language where words can be used in an almost limitless number of ways to relate meaning and intent. Difficulty in this area is also a common issue with Autism, and I don't care one way or the other if you are autistic or not; I haven't even checked your profile to see if you are male or female. I try to avoid pre-conceived notions that way.

The major problem and real issue I see here is you seem not to be able to communicate here without giving some kind of personal character attack against the other person you disagree with, and that seriously negates what do seem as some good points you make in this forum.

I have yet to make any grandiose claims as you insinuate is a character fault of mine. Grandiose claims are exaggerations of abilities, and all of my abilities are referenced as accurate, and as I have stated I can and I will on request, provide resources to evidence them as well; along with providing the context of human potential as a positive thing that can help others, per if he can do it, I can potentially do it too.

For example, if I wanted to make myself look like someone really important I could tell you about the young 20 something year old girls that flock around me for selfies when I go dance at age 54 with them; and yes I could easily link the pictures as they are part of my blogs too, but I haven't done that yet, and I am only talking about it here to make the point. And yes, there are other much more amazing things I could bring up, but considering the environment here it would only likely exacerbate the state of disbelief.

I am fully aware about the point on the scientific method, in this thread. My point was only a general one that this is not a science forum. And although in Tallyman's sticky he indicates this is a forum for debate it certainly is not a forum for formal debate as he allows character personal attacks as well as participating in them himself from time to time, that I can quote here on request. So nah, even if I wanted to report you for a personal attack not likely it would make a difference, and that's okay, as there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do here to hurt my feelings.

I am here to help; it is not something I personally enjoy; it is just part of my natural altruistic nature to help folks that I truly feel need some hope in life; and no I am not referring to you and most of the others posting here.

Who I am referring to is the listening audience that would likely be terrified to actually post here, because of the obvious intellectual bullying that goes on, and personal attacks based on accusations of intellectual disability and or mental illness.

Learning disabilities are common on the Autism Spectrum and that is the last type of personal attack that should be allowed here, in my opinion, just for the sake of humanity, if you will.

Mental illness is also common and although I at one time had severe anxiety and depression from physical illness, my therapist looks to me for advice now, monitoring my state of being from the time when I did have problems. And if you like I can give you her phone number if you would like to validate my claim before you insist my claim is some type of grandiose notion, to put yourself on some type of higher pedestal, as it seems you attempt to do, by doing this, unless you can explain another reason why you do it. I haven't been able to find someone who could explain another way yet.

My way of philosophy is the Kung Fu way. Trust me, if you will or can, I have nothing to prove in life. I've already done it; I'm just enjoying being retired totally at my leisure and relative free will.

And by the way, younamehere has never indicated a religious affiliation in this forum, so he is part of the 98%, not the 80% you speak of, that by the way, is still the overwhelming population of the entire world. And although there may not currently be any agreed upon genetic basis for religiosity, that certainly does not mean science will not find one in the future, as science now even shows that genetic memory is a 'real thing' in other animals.

But anyway, overall, I am really just suggesting, no, not telling you, you might want to refrain from your personal attacks. You seem to value your debating skills, and all that does is take away from any proficiency potentially perceived specific to your debating skills; here at least.

I've typed over 5 million words on this internet site, and yes posts at one time were much longer than this, averaging at least 1000 words a post.

There is no record of me ever personally attacking an individual here, and no one has been able to quote one yet, although I've been accused of it without any real evidence of it happening. I value my integrity much more than if I get mad, cause I don't agree with someone. And what I mean by integrity is treating people with human dignity. And that includes telling the truth too, even if it is hard to hear, when there is the potential for human improvement, and an overall potential better life.

All in just my opinion. But this is truly in real day to day effect, what this particular forum is all about; opinion.

And back to the original topic, the real dude Jesus had some ideas that are based in wisdom, not necessarily science, but yes, wisdom at the core of human being that includes a balance of emotion and reason; yin and yang, if you will, too.


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12 Sep 2014, 6:43 am

aghogday wrote:
I provided a non-literal interpretation; in other words, yournamehere's comments with me reading between the lines.


You provided a subjective interpretation, based on information you clearly do not have access to. You cannot speak on behalf of yournamehere - you should stop trying.

Quote:
The major problem and real issue I see here is you seem not to be able to communicate here without giving some kind of personal character attack against the other person you disagree with, and that seriously negates what do seem as some good points you make in this forum.


You have made this claim already, yet have failed to provide evidence. Your continued unfounded defamation of me is a personal attack.

Quote:
I have yet to make any grandiose claims as you insinuate is a character fault of mine. Grandiose claims are exaggerations of abilities, and all of my abilities are referenced as accurate, and as I have stated I can and I will on request, provide resources to evidence them as well; along with providing the context of human potential as a positive thing that can help others, per if he can do it, I can potentially do it too.


I actually said self-aggrandising - ironically enough. Let's pick out some parts in bold and see whether we can find a trend.

Quote:
For example, if I wanted to make myself look like someone really important I could tell you about the young 20 something year old girls that flock around me for selfies when I go dance at age 54 with them; and yes I could easily link the pictures as they are part of my blogs too, but I haven't done that yet, and I am only talking about it here to make the point. And yes, there are other much more amazing things I could bring up, but considering the environment here it would only likely exacerbate the state of disbelief.


Let me ask you a question, aghogday. Whom do you consider to be your peers?

Quote:
I am fully aware about the point on the scientific method, in this thread. My point was only a general one that this is not a science forum.


Whether or not it is a "science forum" is irrelevant.

Quote:
And although in Tallyman's sticky he indicates this is a forum for debate it certainly is not a forum for formal debate as he allows character personal attacks as well as participating in them himself from time to time, that I can quote here on request. So nah, even if I wanted to report you for a personal attack not likely it would make a difference, and that's okay, as there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do here to hurt my feelings.


Please do. And while you're about it, post mine. With clarity please, and free of subjective interpretation and projection.

Quote:
I am here to help; it is not something I personally enjoy; it is just part of my natural altruistic nature to help folks that I truly feel need some hope in life; and no I am not referring to you and most of the others posting here.


You may believe you're here to help. Your track record suggests that you're here to self-promote and nothing more. My personal view is that you come here for reassurance, but I shall not expand upon that on the basis that you seem to be hypersensitive and likely to construe it as a personal attack.

Quote:
Who I am referring to is the listening audience that would likely be terrified to actually post here, because of the obvious intellectual bullying that goes on, and personal attacks based on accusations of intellectual disability and or mental illness.


"Think of the children!"

Seriously, that's your argument? WP features a wide range of boards that have been assigned a variety of roles. Anyone who is "terrified to post here" would be better served in The Haven. Neither I nor anyone else posting in PPR are responsible for the sensibilities of others.

Quote:
Learning disabilities are common on the Autism Spectrum and that is the last type of personal attack that should be allowed here, in my opinion, just for the sake of humanity, if you will


Let's teach autistic people about autism. That's not at all patronising and rude, right? You continue to discuss personal attacks, yet it seems you don't actually know what constitutes one.

Quote:
Mental illness is also common and although I at one time had severe anxiety and depression from physical illness, my therapist looks to me for advice now, monitoring my state of being from the time when I did have problems. And if you like I can give you her phone number if you would like to validate my claim before you insist my claim is some type of grandiose notion, to put yourself on some type of higher pedestal, as it seems you attempt to do, by doing this, unless you can explain another reason why you do it. I haven't been able to find someone who could explain another way yet.


You don't even realise you're doing it. Yes, you are once again self-aggrandising. The only purpose of this anecdote is to promote yourself.

Quote:
My way of philosophy is the Kung Fu way. Trust me, if you will or can, I have nothing to prove in life. I've already done it; I'm just enjoying being retired totally at my leisure and relative free will.


Trust, as with respect, is earned, not demanded.

Quote:
And by the way, younamehere has never indicated a religious affiliation in this forum, so he is part of the 98%, not the 80% you speak of, that by the way, is still the overwhelming population of the entire world. And although there may not currently be any agreed upon genetic basis for religiosity, that certainly does not mean science will not find one in the future, as science now even shows that genetic memory is a 'real thing' in other animals.


Even if we accept the 2% statistic for those who identify specifically as "atheist" as accurate, you're making the logical error of assuming that the world is divided into atheists and theists. Your 98% includes around 1.2 billion people who are non religious or agnostic.

Science is being used to demonstrate something that was already observed with regards to "genetic memory". It most certainly has not shown that belief in god is related to the genes. Even it were, it would merely demonstrate that belief in gods is a learned behaviour - which is already common knowledge.

Quote:
But anyway, overall, I am really just suggesting, no, not telling you, you might want to refrain from your personal attacks. You seem to value your debating skills, and all that does is take away from any proficiency potentially perceived specific to your debating skills; here at least.


As you have failed to demonstrate that I have committed a personal attack, I insist that you refrain from your relentless defamation. Like I already said, what you're doing does constitute a personal attack.

Quote:
And back to the original topic, the real dude Jesus had some ideas that are based in wisdom, not necessarily science, but yes, wisdom at the core of human being that includes a balance of emotion and reason; yin and yang, if you will, too.


The character Jesus, as shown in the "new testament" of the christian holy book, was an amalgamation of parables and wisdoms that pre-date christianity. If such a man existed, he most certainly was not the flawless paragon of virtue he has been depicted as via redaction.



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12 Sep 2014, 9:51 am

^^

The English language is a subjective language not an objective language. In fact, science shows that language at core is metaphor. Metaphor is subjective not objective. Not to be able to understand language as subjective can make a substantial difficulty in cognitive empathy also known as theory of mind. Whether or not you are autistic, this is considered a core issue of autism. Not suggesting you are aren't autistic; I still haven't checked.

I have access to theory of mind of yournamehere's reciprocal communication, in part, likely as I have the condition of hyperlexia as well as close to a photographic memory. I've analyzed everything he's said in the past I've read and come to the conclusion of theory of mind based on that. Everyone views the world differently; just because I have access to the information and you may not is simply part of the human condition that is documented in science as this.

I used the statements I used as example and clearly indicated that. You claiming that I am self aggrandizing in not suggesting it could be possible, is most definitely a personal attack and defamation of character. You have no provided evidence that your defamation of character is true, as my statements are correct and not an exaggeration of my abilities. It's really none of you business who my peers are, but I consider my peers to be all of the human species, per the philosophy of unconditional love.

I also understand that it may be impossible for you to understand this; note I said may, I am not asserting it to be true, but in that case there may be no way at this point in time to get through to you, perhaps with time and effort if that is the case, one day someone else may be able to, or perhaps this memory may ring true then.

The new testament version of Jesus is sullied by revision; that is obvious but there are definitely grains of Universal truth repeated by truth seekers throughout history.

And as a final note, per my clarification that my example of the girls at the club surrounding me dancing and wanting selfies with me, where they want to do it of course; and obviously not something I made them do, nor do I expect it whenever I go to dance with them; there is substantial evidence of that in my latest blog post, if you think it's just my imagination and I am suggesting a reality in my life that is not true for self aggrandizing personality defect. And no, they don't want to go home with me, at least as far as i know; they just appreciate a skilled dancer; as it's definitely a skill that is usually appreciated as it is a way of human communication and general primate communication well before complex verbal language.

Sharing a person's success or interests in life with other folks, even whole social interaction forums, is part of normal reciprocal social communication. It's normal human behavior and not self aggrandizing or self promoting behavior. Some folks have enough humility to say, hey that's cool man or whatever for small talk, and what other folks relate can be jealousy. Note: I said can, and am not asserting you as an individual do relate this other common human behavior.

Somewhere between 60 to 93 percent of human social reciprocal communication is non verbal and let's just say I "work it out"; you can google the you tube song if you like, for details.

There was a whole thread here at one point in time here by a lady that was titled "A successful Autistic" that listed all her accomplishments in life, which definitely included amazing feats of strength and many other similar accomplishments in life that I do relate. No one expressed a problem with it. I think the issue here is obvious, per folks suggesting I have a personality defect rather than simply adapting, adjusting and doing amazing things in life; otherwise known as being a successful human being. That's something to share; not something to hide for those who have empathy for other folks and do not feel inferior just because somebody else does something cool.

Dude, I came out of five years of permanent disability as a shut-in my home and did all of what I did in one years time. My therapist call it a religious, yes religious type miracle, and I call it a natural miracle per the GOD of nature; yes part of that 80 to 98%, too, for folks who don't identify it as classical pantheism and seriously my only real religion is dance and song, including martial arts.

In real life folks high five me for my story; this is the only place where it is termed a personality defect through personal attacks. But I think there is an obvious reason for that here. I could be wrong, yes, but I doubt it. Simply as I use the scientific method and this is the only place in my Universe that it occurs, and I do interact with hundreds of people a day, when I do get out. So, in other words, there is something different about how folks perceive things here in regard to human accomplishment in realizing full human potential, for 'whatever' reason.

I feel no need to personally attack folks when they tell me the great things they achieve in life. I tell them good for you, I think that's great! And hell no, this is the last place I come for reassurance and the last place I need it from, as I find my security from the GOD of nature and generate it from within, through relative free will, not unlike what the man Yeshua is reported as saying in the Gospel of Thomas.

In an attempt here to get this topic back on the historical man Jesus and how you view my personal life, which is none of your business, and I doubt (note: doubt it means doubt it; I am not asserting it or claiming it; this is based on the fact that no one else does it in real life in hundreds of interactions when relating the same story in real life) you would have ever have the 'balls' to say it (per personal attack) to me face to face, in real life, as you hide behind an avatar here, as yes many people do on the Internet, but yes too, that is also par for the course for the Internet, and me just talking to you man to man, if you are a male, and if you are female sorry about the 'balls metaphor' used for human courage. Have a nice day; sincerely, I mean that, this place is ripe for miscommunication and misunderstandings for more than obvious reasons. Thanks for trying; I think. :)


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Last edited by aghogday on 12 Sep 2014, 10:21 am, edited 5 times in total.

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12 Sep 2014, 10:00 am

Please stop quoting entire posts - especially when the post quoted is immediately above the response including the quote.


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12 Sep 2014, 10:01 am

^^

Yes sir, I will do that, and correct the above post, as requested. :)


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Last edited by aghogday on 12 Sep 2014, 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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12 Sep 2014, 10:04 am

That might have been more meaningful if you hadn't quoted my post immediately above it, but thanks anyway. :lol:


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12 Sep 2014, 10:22 am

^^

I guess that means i'm still autistic, after all. ;)

But I suppose even Superman could be Autistic.

(note: that's just a joke;)

And yes, dam it, I did it again.:)

Not on purpose, though.


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29 Dec 2014, 10:25 am

Isn't God the 10 or 11 dimensional Multiverse? :?: