Why do girls want cocky, arrogant guys?

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Something else I just heard recently which I thought was funny, probably very true, and seemed to be a really good analogy:

David D. just did an interview with a guy who'd written a book called "Become the Jerk that Women Love" (F.J. Shark). Again, like everyone else his book was all about gaining the trappings and attraction-triggers that a jerk has, which nice guys never do, but doing so without having to be a douchebag about it. His analogy for why women don't go for nice guys and his explanation of the dynamics is like this: a new years resolution to start eating healthier. People love to make resolutions, they know they should be doing something but they don't have the motivation to follow through just because the right thing isn't the feel-good thing. F.J. Shark likened nice guys to all the healthfood a woman meant to put in the grocery cart when she went to the grocery store but never ended up getting because while she's there the odds are overwhelming that she'll still cave in, like anyone else, and go for the taste-good food (Ben & Jerry's, Dorito's, whatever) anyway.

That's the big problem though, when kindness causes you not to tease someone, give them a hard time, when it causes you to be too compliant or understanding, especially if it makes you come off as a lack of challenge, whether your a guy or girl in the dating scene, people either won't be attracted or the odds are they'll really start taking you for granted. In this same cd F.J. started also talking about how women can really make or break a man in this world and most of it has to do with whether or not he puts himself first or her first. If he puts himself and his passions first the game is still on, the attraction is still there, and she's still trying to prove herself to him or bid for his attention. He also mentioned that its the guys women have lots of of little things to complain about that irk em all the time who stay in the long-term relationships (I've seen this with some of my friends and their relationships - they neglect them just enough to where it creates tension but doesn't break the relationship). However the second a guy really turns from that and puts her first its almost guaranteed that things will start slipping badly, to the point where it'll be harsh enough to say that her priorities will be #1 - everything and everyone else and #2 then him, in otherwords putting her first tends to be all too often a road to being treated like your subhuman. Does a guy have to treat a woman like she's subhuman to keep control? No, just that you always need to keep these things in mind, never be too nice, if she does something innappropriate she's gonna see it as weakness if you aren't offended or don't put your footdown, they're always testing guys like that. Yeah, that's a tall order and it *really* sucks if you may not have the social fluidness needed to really do those things effectively (which I know a lot of you, like myself probably fall back on the nice-guy bit just out of low social stamina), but still that seems to be about the extent of it.

I wonder what Serissa, Mockingbird, and Danlo think about that.

The thing is though, does all this stuff lead to a long, lasting relationship? I don't think DeAngelo is exactly teaching us how to get into a lasting relationship that may lead to marriage. I think in the end, lasting relationships come out of strong, healthy friendships. I think DeAngelo is promoting more shallow, quick relationships.

EWWWWWWWWWWWW!! ! Because those women are totally screwed up and need to sort themselves out?

A lot of people are not trained from birth to stand their ground, they are trained to be accepting, compliant, passive. Not always a good thing.

Some may find some kind of benefit from remaining as they are. I guess sometimes the devil you know is less frightening than the devil you don't. Who knows?

I guess you could ask them?

"Become the Jerk that Women Love" (F.J. Shark).

Alright then...

Next stop: the library

I think DeAngelo is promoting his book, to make a buck off of people who will buy it.

There is also a certain degree of entertainment value to what he says. He does like to put "wusses" in a bad light, which helps the egos of other men.

Like I said in another post, there is a difference between a nice guy and a good guy. Women want a GOOD guy, and thats somewhat different from a NICE guy.

What he's said on long-term relationships and actually landing em is in the end people do want sincerity, just not in the first 10 dates or so. Its almost as if to say even if you meet the person who'd be completely right for you, odds are you'd have some major problems and she'd still end up flaking on you unless you did at least some degree of these things. Maybe I've just seen way too many of the wrong things happen to or with friends, maybe my manifestation of AS is really that much more precise in terms of bad nonverbals so I can't rate my own experiences as anything, I don't know. It just keeps getting proven over and over and I keep seeing fewer and fewer exceptions.

Talk about inefficiency! Why do all the cocky and funny stuff when you're going to get a sincere relationship anyway? If the end goal is to build a house, why put off building the house and dig a big hole in the front yard that is going to be filled in anyway once the house is built? If someone doesn't like you because you don't have enough C&F, that's their problem, because they don't accept you for who you are.

Part of relationships is accepting another person "as is".

I think your missing the point, I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel it was absolutely necessary. Another thing - I'm not a geek, my friends aren't geeks, and even if I did want to try for the kind of girl who'd want a 'nice guy' she'd probably be that sheltered to where she'd be a bit scared off by social antics and the types of guys I talk to, it's happened in the past and they don't allow for much of a sense of paradox in a person (ie. what they see is what they get and if it isn't they're too scared to take a venture to figure it out). Another thing, even if I did land a girlfriend like that, while I'll give almost any girl a chance to show who she is, a lot of times in the past the uber-accepting types have just depressed me and I just felt I was rotting away when I hung out with em - that's not deliberate, more along the lines of inherent emotions that blue was talking about in her thread.

Seriously, I'll keep an opened mind but untill I see something that actually works for me I'll have to assume I need to work on myself if I want to be more relatable. Life's a b---- and sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and face it, if anything I think that's being more true to ones self than most people are willing to be because its taking reality over ego.

ugh it's not the cocky "as*holes", in fact when a girl says her boyfriend is a "jerk" 9 times out of 10 its because she didn't get what she wanted and starts crying like a 3 year old. Not because the guy is truly 'a jerk'. Next many men of high value (good looks, personality, social status), have their pick of the women and are not needy... this is the biggest turn off to women: Needy nice guys.

It's also a fact that the "nice guys" are losers in some way:

**They are boring people (limited interests)
**Socially inept (perhaps?)
**They are wusses around women (treat them different then they'd treat there guy friends or just strangers)
**They are too serious all the time
**Have no sense of humor
**Have no sense of adventure
**Are afraid of being their BEST selves, and expressing themselves they see inside their fantasies in their minds eye
**Are needy / in too much of need of validation and approval from other people or strangers
**Are not properly groomed / Bad hair / clothes / fashion sense

I could probably go on... but many "nice guys" need a good kick in the butt and stand up for themselves and stop SUPPLICATING women, thats the problem with those kinds of guys...

DO NOT TREAT A WOMAN ANY DIFFERENTLY THEN YOU WOULD YOUR GUY FRIEND OR YOUR BRATTY SISTER. Many women are not that wonderful to be around, period. Wussy guys should take charge more and dump women they don't like instead of being slave to their desire for sex.

The fact is *real men* get laid, wussy guys who treat women like they are goddesses do not. the fact 'wussy' nice guys either 1) get their feelings involved way too fast or 2) have no clue how to vibe with women or 3) do not know how to show women a good time.

I'm sure the ladies in the thread can add their horror stories of lame "nice guys", who just didn't "get it".

It is funny that I am kind, thoughtful, sometimes funny, smart, and not extremely bad looking, but women ignore me left and right. I signed on to MySpace for the express purpose of meeting women, and I haven't gotten a single response back out of all the messages I've sent.

Women are usually polite to me when I talk to them in person, but like everyone, they never invite me to do things with them or anything.

Hee, hee!! Shouldn't laugh but these are so true they're painfully funny. Not that it's impossible to get a girlfriend with these traits - you'll just have to wait many years, be very lucky, then very obedient to keep her......

I think the main reason that many women fall for the meat-heads is that it's just easier for them (the women that is). Most people hate taking risks - would you want to risk the humiliation of rejection by being turned down? Of course not, so it's quite normal for most women to always expect a man to make the first move. And the second...and the third etc etc. So advantage goes to men with the emotional sensitivity of a housebrick as they're immune to humiliation.

The one thing I'm not sure of is that I think you *do* have to treat women differently then guy friends. Unless you regularly flirt with your guy friends, in which case, you should be OK treating them the same.

I agree about women describing guys that way, I see it with my friends and their girlfriends when their girlfriends can't make up jump or say how high. Also neediness is always a turnoff, whether your a guy or girl.



That might explain a lot of clueless guys who really don't know whats going on of have any self respect but its just as often true that a lot of guys tend to be too common-sense/logic oriented where what they're dealing with is animal instinct, its dominant instincts women are looking for and regardless of how self-respecting a nice guys is, if he could throw down in a fight if another guy messed with him, even if he doesn't supplicate women whatsoever - it's still not always enough. The miracle about AS is a lot of times it tares up your ability to think fast, sometimes it messes with your ability to spit out a good oneliner because your body-language (especially when overloaded) is horridly misunderstoof, atypical, and everything goes wrong because of that - when it's a physiological give-out point its really more disability than weakness of courage or will. Also I have my theory on boring, I think there are lots of people out there who's personalities don't fit the mold, they go through years of hardship over this, and in the end they realize they need to keep a lot of their best traits to themselves just because people in general aren't on the same emotional or perspective level (not saying they're above everyone else necessarily, just maybe to the left or right of the norm in the way they process things or experience life) - depth is also one of those things where it's been cited that a lot of the most couragious people who were the best leaders and greatest thinkers were some of the biggest social losers during peace time just because they're personalities where too vertically built (lots of depth but not socially broad) where as a lot of social butterflies are built with lots of social bredth, not a lot of depth, and it's the dog that yips the best who shines the brightest during mundane times where nothing of any real importance is going on. Not to say you don't have people out there who can't be both at the same time, just that so much of that is just how you're neurologically built and if your a natural introvert even knowing all the cocky funny lines, all the game, and knowing how to it probably won't help much unless your just real drunk and horny at a party looking for a one nighter. Neil Strauss talks about guys who are 'average frustrated chumps' and other than being obesquios or clingy they also have in common the fact that they want to personality shop women before they let themselves like someone whereas the game in general is only played right when your walk over and try smooth-talking a woman because she looks good - you know hardly anything about her and you've gotta hope that the way she vibed off to you means she has her head on straight or has a personality compatable with yours, some people have the energy, drive, and desire to go through all that and go through about 15 to 20 women before they happen on the right ones whereas taking that whole social exercise is extremely draining for others especially if not being themselves is something they aren't real practiced at.



Been doing that for years, and while that in and of itself hasn't done lots on its own I know for sure it's a vital component



Well, the major exceptions to that rule is if your a social butterfly backstreet boy who looks like Ashton Kutcher and hangs all over a girl, drools, and treats her like he's dirt beneath her feet it works - I've seen waiters do that to waitresses at work and I have to get myself away from it because just hearing them prostrate themselves like that makes me sick. It's really weird to see it work at all though but I guess looks, conformity, and social prestige can overcome the douchebag niceguy angles if they have em.

At the same time as well, you also have plenty of real men who don't get laid. Whether they're introverts, have too much sincerity wiring, really aren't comfortable with starting beef or going out of their way to show dominance just to prove a point - like I said, I don't think it's weakness so much as we just aren't all built the same. The unfortunate thing for guys who aren't built like players, sexual attraction on the other hand is only built one way. Dave DeAngelo one of the times when he was talking to Neil Strauss or Mystique on one of his cd's mentioned some of those 17th and 18th century writers who were all serious, philosophical, usually depressed about life, and talked about a woman who they loved but that the woman didn't even know he existed - they kinda joked about the idea that his techniques might unfortunately rid the world of some of the best poets, writers, and inventors just because it would have them getting what they wanted. My thought on that - if those guys had personalities like that, no amount of game would be able to save them. That kind of intelligence has a fatal flaw in the dating world - it's not an animal intelligence. The dating world is where we have to go back to our roots, as monkeys/apes/whathaveyou, and orient ourselves as completely as possible to have almost everything in a rather hidden way be centered around charming the opposit sex - if you've got too much human and too little ape in you it's like that parable of trying to get a camel through the eye of a needle.

LOl, too funny - I hadn't really looked at it that way for a while but that's another real good point.

You have to be firm with these women as if they were a friend you were concerned about. Don't be an emotional tampon for her; command her to break up with him. If she tries to find excuses "I can change him," convince her to the contrary. "Many women thought that before they found themselves shoved through wood chippers/stuffed in the trunk of a car/killed/raped/etc. Face it. You can't change him." "Here's what I want you to do. Break up with him by this date. If you fail, I'm afraid I won't be able to help you out otherwise."

Meh, bad advice is always fun.