Will we be weird in the afterlife?

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Yes, wow! I was taught how to be "a good Christian" as defined by that particular denomination, and I heard all the Bible stories, doctrine and dogma in that particular box. But other than "We are right and everyone else is wrong", nothing related to anything else was ever taught or explained. The denomination had began after some people with an evangelical mindset had been excommunicated for singing in harmony, then they began sending missionaries to foreign lands and believed they had the entire deal all wrapped up.

Oh, okay----GOOD----cuz, I was thinking you were thinking it was gonna be horrible, cuz you felt you were gonna be bored.

I'm thinking I'm understanding, a little better, now, what you're saying.....

Same here for many years...and then I was also shocked when some Catholic friends said Peter had been the first Pope. My only response at the time was to ask whether Peter had been consulted...


Agreed...

"Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." --James 1:27 (NASB)

Also...

"...show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." --James 2:18 (NASB)

Okay, I'm not sure to whom you were speaking----but, I get the feeling you were talking to me, cuz you've "wowed" me, before, when I didn't know something you felt I should've known as a kid; and, if you WERE talking to me..... I've told you before, I had a really rough up-bringing, and the most I had of which I call "brain-space", had to go to just paying-attention / learning how to stay ALIVE, in my felonious family of total NUTCAKES!!

If you WEREN'T talkin' to me----pardon me.....

Yep, that was, pretty much, me (my experience), TOO!!

Yes, I believe you're right. I was joking a little bit with the initial comment. But it comes from the painful experience of feeling very "othered" by NT people. You know that way an aspie can get treated when you realize that the person is a very nice person, but even they find you odd?
I'm a very sensitive person and intentions toward people are always good. Nothing but positive and sappy feelings. But it does happen that people just don't understand me and just aren't sure of my intentions. But I believe that in the afterlife, people can simply feel the essence of one another. It would truly be amazing to feel understood.

Yes, I surely do, and yet that is also quite understandable since there seems to be far more of them than there are of us. I have had good friends occasionally look at me a bit askance and make comments such as "Wow, you say things other people only think about" or call me "driven" or "fastidious" and so on, but I often find some of them just as baffling!


I think that is simply because we so often think and/or act "out loud" where other people ponder things more silently, if at all...and then they have no points-of-reference or personal experience for putting our own words and actions into some overall perspective.


We can actually get a taste of that even now in conversations such as this, and then yes, I am quite convinced that will be the default for everyone throughout eternity.

Do you know the term "Christian" began as a detrimental slur? Scripture says the disciples were called "Christians", not that they called themselves Christians.


That is the contrast of what you aunt says. In other words, "Tell me all about yours with mere words and then I will show you mine without saying anything." Or to say that in some other ways: "Practice what you preach, then drop the preach" or "Preach the gospel at all times, using words only when absolutely necessary!"

I think that is simply because we so often think and/or act "out loud" where other people ponder things more silently, if at all...and then they have no points-of-reference or personal experience for putting our own words and actions into some overall perspective.

Very true. I have done that since birth and still find it hard to not simply be upfront and honest with people. I say what I think and expect others to do the same and that's not realistic. It's even considered rude. Meanwhile, my brain doesn't understand the purpose of verbal communication if it's anything but upfront and honest. I understand how the NTs feelings are on the issue, but I will never be able to really have the feelings that they have. I can only adapt/conform to their social rules as much as possible so I can make my life as easy and painless as possible. My strategy for 40 years has in essence, been an abject fail so I'm trying to socially evolve yet again.

Well, according to the research that I've found on the subject, autistics make up 1% of the human family. And high-functioning autistics like us...people who could be classified by the now defunct term, "Aspergers", make up only .02% of the human population...or 1 out of 500

Yeah, I agree----but, I'm thinking it won't be like that, in the sense that we won't have "feelings" / needs, etc., like what Kiriae was saying, before. I'm thinking that we won't need to feel understood. It's very difficult to describe / imagine----but, I'm thinking the attitude of "I don't care what anybody thinks-of me", which I and others have found, might give us, at least, a little taste of what it might be like.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence----you may already know this----but, you seem to be really reaching-out, so I thought I'd pass-along, to you, something that I have learned..... I used to feel just like you (and others, on here), in that I always felt stupid, less-than, etc., and I LIVED to be liked / understood, and I thought if I just talked my face off, that eventually SOMEBODY would see that I was smart, and WORTH listening-to / respecting, and so-forth----but, here's the thing..... I learned WAAAAAAY more, when I shut-up, and started listening to OTHER people----and the BONUS was that when I started to respond to what THEY were saying (as opposed to trying to, like, beat them about the head and face [not literal, of course], with what *I* knew), they started liking / paying-attention to ME, more. Funny how that works!!

Getting-along with people----REGARDLESS of the relationship----is about "give-and-take", and alot of that includes knowing when to add to the exchange (talk) and when to take, from the exchange (listen); and, it ain't EASY (NEITHER is easy to learn / "perform"). I've been a teacher, off-and-on, practically my entire life, and that works best, in THAT relationship, as well. Can you imagine, as a student, not being able to ask the teacher questions, to clarify in your mind, what she just said? Well, it's the same in ANY relationship, IMO, in that EVERYBODY (NTs, too) wants to be heard, accepted, respected, etc.----we, Aspies, are just much more "fierce" about it (bullying, really----or, "controlling", if you'd rather----about it [like I said, I used to do it, myself]), because we've been "stomped-on" (put-down, made fun-of, etc.), so much.

We, also, are alot like other groups of people, in that we over-correct (I've done this, as well)----we have taken, and taken, and taken, so much (been suppressed / oppressed, etc.), that we turn-right-around, and beat everybody else, down (suppress THEM); not thinking (or even caring, maybe), for a MINUTE, what it was like, when people did it, to us.

Also, as I'm sure you already know, NONE of this is easily learned / conquered / practiced, etc.----and, maybe, one of the most difficult parts of accomplishing this, is being able to put oneself in another's shoes; and, it seems like some Aspies either can't, or WON'T, choose to learn to do that; and, unfortunately, I can't think of anything to tell ya, to help ya out, cuz I was taught it, from a very teeny-tiny little kid (taught to put myself, in someone else's shoes - and then, because I've had so many life experiences [UN-Apsie-related], that has just made it that much easier). Just, maybe, if you're not already doing this, try to focus MORE on what you can get FROM other people, than what OTHER people can get from YOU (ie, listening more, and not trying to prove you're smart, so someone will like ya). I'm thinking you'll be surprised at people's increased positive response to you----and, I think you'll be surprised at what you'll learn, if you open yourself up, to receiving it (I've said, more-than-once, that I've learned more from little old black ladies on buses, than, maybe, I've learned from ANYBODY----and, I LOVE listening to them----can't get enough of 'em----have actually been disappointed when I haven't been able to have an encounter with one, on whatever bus-ride, and have considered it a missed chance at gaining yet another of their "pearls of wisdom").

Also, one last thing----going-back to the portion of your post that I quoted ("amazing to feel understood")----there's that old saying: "That's because they can't see the forest for the trees", and many, MANY people (NTs, included) will often think that they're not being understood, when in reality, IMO, they are often MORE understood than they realize. We, Aspies (myself, included - and others, with ANY kind of problems, really), can be very, VERY defensive about other people telling us about ourselves (reading us)..... MY theory is, it's because we haven't been able to figure ourselves, out----so, what makes anybody think THEY can figure us, out, when they haven't been-through what WE have; but, here's the thing.....

Aside from them being on the outside (outside of the forest, so they can see the trees), one doesn't have to BE an Aspie, to understand alot of what we go-through (this goes back to what I was saying about everybody wanting to be heard, considered, respected, etc.), all they need is to have experienced certain things that we have experienced (the catalyst doesn't always have to be ONLY Aspergers)----and, that might be frustration (although it wasn't Aspie-ness causing it, it's similar), "the blues" / being down on ourselves (although it might not be rejection for being different, causing it, they can relate), feeling less-than (although they will not have felt less-than by being an Aspie, they certainly have made mistakes that made them feel stupid / insecure)..... One of the things that they may not be able to relate to, is being so slow on the draw, so often (understanding people, what they mean, their humor, etc.), like we can be (myself, included)----but, even THEN, I would bet that they don't understand 100 percent of the people, 100 percent of the time!!

(Also, I would suggest NOT telling ANYBODY that you're an Aspie----because, if for no other reason, than because that AGAIN puts you in the driver's seat, steering the conversation, talking all about what YOU know [because chances are, they won't know / won't know much, about Aspergers / Autism]. If you only share that you have a SINGLE portion of what you have [ie, anxiety, depression, frustration, whatever], then that gives them a chance to share THEIR experiences, and talk about THEMSELVES----and, like I said, then WE have yet another chance, to LEARN; and, isn't that alot of what we live-for?)

Anyway, I truly apologize for this "book", that I've written, here (maybe I really haven't learned how to shut-up, afterall, LOL), but I've seen you all over this site, asking questions (like I said, what I perceive as, reaching-out), and because I believe so strongly in "Once you've made it through, reach-back and grab your brother's hand, and help him through, too", I wanted to throw my two cents, in there.

I'm going to take my own stab at this, ie. what I think there's at least some evidence for.

When someone goes into a really deep state of meditation (with symbolic focus rather than emptying), does something like smoke DMT, or anything along that line that breaks or reorients the usual conscious/subconscious barrier very interesting things happen. They tend to find themselves going through, for a while, what you'd expect in terms of tightly profiled information arrays that have certain likenesses of going from an object-oriented programming layer down to an assembly code. The interesting thing happens when they go down below that and find themselves in a very different sort of place, a very strange place that finds coherence in a very different way but nonetheless still has it. Hearing about people's DMT trips, 'blastoff', and breaking plateaus, as well as hearing about ceremonial magicians and Golden Dawn variety Hermetic kabbalists exploring the paths of the Tree of Life between the ten sephira gives a very similar sense of alien places that one can pack up their whole conscious mind and go see providing they've trained the right way or taken the right chemical. You also have NDE experiencers saying interesting things about their voyages in other places but they're in a different situation than a meditator or drug user in the sense that they've packed up significantly more of their resources on their trip. Across those lines though the messages of a conscious monism seems to hold.

The other side issue is entanglement. We haven't known what to do with it because it's too weird, ie. information shouldn't be able to travel instantaneously between two particles regardless of distance. One way to probe this phenomena could be to ask the question of whether the space and time we think of is virtual or pragmatic rather than real in the sense of actual distances. I've off and on heard about the vacuum energy of space being something over 1 ^110 joules per cubic feet but I just tried to look it up and it seems like at least one of those figures of what it 'should be' based on Max Planck's calculations. From that perspective I have to remain skeptical of any numbers that are purely mathematically derived but not actually observed because any wrong assumption along the way can yield absurd math. If it were the case that a cubic foot of vacuum had more energy than the entire universe of matter that we're familiar with that would come out strongly in favor of the suggestion above, particularly if it was true everywhere in space. Again it would suggest that all of this is still folded up into a point the way it was at the big bang and that the big bang was something more like an initialization of some kind of activity in a particular domain set that seems to create light years of distance but in the higher reality does no such thing.

With that last block tethered to the first block we're not left with seemingly intractable questions such as how does consciousness on neurons leave a skull intact or, assuming its information, how it doesn't just fade out at the edge of a person's skin or into whatever they were laying on. The answer might be that it retracts into something that was a substratum of the subconscious brain, below where all the assembly code is happening and we know that healthy, living, breathing people can go and explore such places.

I know theories or ideas like this tend to throw certain types of people into conniption fits over what's pseudo-scientific BS and what isn't. I'd be the first to claim that it's not science, it's an attempt at making sense of an experience-first map of things. The two can't line up at this point because science hasn't come to map yet where certain kinds of experiences take consciousness or conscious formulation, data, etc. and with current instrumentation I think it would be extremely difficult to make that happen. I think both charges that meditators, NDE'ers, etc.. are 'far beyond science' and charges that you either believe the popular interpretations of physicalism which are more just unnecessary metaphysical assumptions bolted on to the current state of the art mean that if you aren't an atheist reductionist that you're an idiot - both of these seem equally unfair and myopic. The first is even more ironic considering that the world has always had magic, always had religious hallucinogen rituals, and for most of that time also had rigid caste systems and human sacrifice.

Pardon me.
Sorry to hear about your ruff family life (don't remember us talking about that before).

I was addressing the person I was quoting. Not you. That being Leejoseph.

Agreed. All-around awareness and understanding will be the default for everyone and with all instincts and desires completely satisfied, and that means it will be impossible for anyone to ever feel anything less that complete.


You make many great points throughout your post, Campin_Cat, and I believe the essence of much of what you are saying is founded in the fact that all people have exactly the same set of natural, inherent instincts, desires and ambitions: To be needed, wanted, loved, accepted, respected and all of those things that can satisfy each person's inherent instincts, desires and ambitions. Hence, and especially since there is no such thing as self-satisfaction of our natural, inherent instincts, desires and ambitions, placing the instincts, desires and ambitions of others ahead of our own is always the best course of action...