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Moog
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13 May 2010, 4:26 am

justMax wrote:
I used to have a lot of issues like that, I remember when I finally got mad at myself for being mad at myself, and burst out laughing at the irony of it all.

Then when I started getting further into math and science, I realized life is far too beautiful to go around being depressed all the time, I think my brain broke at some point too.


Anyone else ever laughed at a tree?


Laughing at trees is mean. I only ever laugh with them.

I get mad at myself for being mad too, but it doesn't break me out in laughter.


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Moog
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13 May 2010, 4:42 am

carltcwc wrote:
I also wanted to state that people with confidence issues usually come from having overly critical parents or being made fun of in school.


True

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If you think logically you should know that this isnt a problem with yourself.


Logic rarely comes into it. I know logically it's pointless to feel bad about myself.

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Its a problem with them.


No, it's my problem. I'm the one that has to suffer it, and must take responsibility for coping with and hopefully solving it. They (or more properly speaking, what they do) are a causal factor.

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If you find your self being sensitive then you need to get rid of these people.


Not always possible or desirable.

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If your insensitive then you should be immune to it


SIlly me for not being insensitive.

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and not listen to these people.


It's more the internalized 'voices' (I don't hear voices) that haunt me.

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I would probablly make a bad councler


I agree.

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because I would tell people to just get over it but Ive realized some people have a hard time with this.


If only it were so easy.

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Most people who are overly critical of others have serious problems with themselves.


That's true, and if me doing this seems overly critical, then you know why.

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Its unfortinate that some people have to grow up with this stuff.


Yes.

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I have known people with ptsd and it seems worse to me than having any other mental disorder.


It's apples and oranges. Mental disorders are not nice no matter which variety you happen to be afflicted with.

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I have been unable to comprehend what its like though because I cant understand someone not realizing that their problem is not them but other people.


I covered this earlier.

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Feelings such as guilt and shame are very unnecessary unless you did something like accedently kill a kitten and even if it was an accedent it wasnt your fault so your not really guilty. Sometimes s**t just happens and it happens to everyone.


Feelings of guilt and shame are there to entrain behavior that rewards us with 'nice' feelings and steer us away from behaviors that invoke 'nasty' ones.

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If you did it on purpose its because you meant to do it so why did you do it if you thought you would regret it?


I think that most people don't do things with conscious purpose. They (or we, I should say) mainly react unconsciously to environmental stimulus.


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carltcwc
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13 May 2010, 6:56 am

Ok. I will admit I have an extremely hard time understanding things from other peoples points of view. One thing I am wondering is why it would not be desirable to get rid of someone in your life who is degrading towards you? I do not find your comments overly critical either. Im dont know if people really do things with conscious purpose or not because I do not know what people think other than that they can think anything possible there is to think. As for me I am usually aware of what I am doing unless it is an accedent or I am not in a good state of mind. When I am not in a good state of mind I am still making my own choices even though they might not be ones I would normally make. It usually has to do with impulses. I will admit though there have been times where I lost control with impulse and did not feel like I conciously made the choice although if I plan something out and go though with it then of course I know what I am doing. Im not saying I do anything that bad, Im just stating that for the most part I know what I am doing and make my own choices. I cant imagine someone planning something and going through with it and saying they didnt conciously make the decision to do so. The same goes for someone who repeteively belittles someone. I would think they are doing it on purpose if they keep doing it because it seems obvious to me that they wouldnt do so if they didnt want to. I can understand impulsively doing something without thinking. This is differant than doing something that you do regularlly. The reason I stated that it is a problem with them is because someone wouldnt do that if they didnt have a problem. Sometimes I try to help people with advise but I have noticed that some people never seem to get it. I dont know if I express what I am trying to say in the wrong way or if it me that doesnt know how other people feel. I would imagine its both. I can understand that it is your problem that you had to go though but what I meant is that it is not a problem with who you are. I will give an example of what I am trying to express. Imagine a kid who grows up with abusive parents. The parents make the kids life horrible everyday. The kid never did anything wrong to deserve that. There is nothing wrong with the kid. There is something seriously wrong with the kids parents. Now the kid may grow up to have problems but those problems wouldn't be there if the parents were nice and supportive. There is nothing wrong with being differant from other people too. Everyone is different and there is no such thing as normal. As adults we choose who we associate with and are responsible for ourselves. People need to make their own personal decisions. Child abuse is at least as bad as murdering innocent people and I think that people who seriously abuse children should recieve equal punishment for what they do. I am disgusted when I hear about child abusers being let free from prison. I hear all kinds of stories about these kinds of situations and it is not taken seriously enough. Some people think not feeling guilty is bad or even sociopathic but not if you didnt do anything wrong. That why it seems to me that someone wouldn't do something if they thought they would feel guilty about it. I can do nice things not because I am afarid of feeling guilty for not doing it but simply because it is logical to do something that everyone benifits from and creates a better outcome. Doing something nice out of fear is not the right reason to do so. People should be nice just because it makes sense to do so. I do not even feel a need to do something nice to feel good about myself or any type of emotional satification. I will just do it to do it. The reward is not in knowing you did something good but rather you made a better outcome for everyone. I think its funny that people seem to believe that you need feelings to do something nice because to me it seems almost as if it takes more greed to do something nice to satisfy yourself. Im sure I have to have some sort of feelings but I am usually unaware of what they are. I do have a desire to make the world a better place because I think there is too much negativity in the world that people have created with their emotional needs. I have always perceived reality as if it is a mathmatical equasion. To me emotions are mathmatical as well. Everything is. More like a biological simulated program made out of a binary code made out of 1's and 0's but its actually both and neither. Its all made out of anomalies and its nothing more than perception. Not so much like the matrix though. Its more like the anti-matrix. I guess Im getting off topic. I tend to do that but I was trying to share what I perceive as reality. I dont know if it helps or not though. Imagine that we're all characters in a book that someone is writing and everything we live in is just a story of memories. It makes sense to me because you can watch a game today like the sims where you create these characters that begin making their own decisions off of multiple choices of randomly selected binary codes. Its a step up from a book that someone wrote with one possible outcome where now there are multiple outcomes. Now imagine later where someone invents the next step up as if they havent already. There will even be more randomly selected choices. Pretty soon you get into advanced artificial intelligence. Where we live in our biological reality it is so advanced that there are infinate choices so whats the next step up and who's controlling our game? I've noticed that by mixing autistic logical anwsers with psychotic delusions I may have figured it all out by logically ruling out the unreasonable ideas that dont make sense until I make sense out of them. No I dont think I'm smarter than everyone else but I do know that the average person doesn't sit around and think about stuff constantly like I do. I think I may have very well already thought my way through insanity and back.



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13 May 2010, 7:32 am

carltcwc wrote:
Ok. I will admit I have an extremely hard time understanding things from other peoples points of view. One thing I am wondering is why it would not be desirable to get rid of someone in your life who is degrading towards you? I do not find your comments overly critical either. Im dont know if people really do things with conscious purpose or not because I do not know what people think other than that they can think anything possible there is to think. As for me I am usually aware of what I am doing unless it is an accedent or I am not in a good state of mind. When I am not in a good state of mind I am still making my own choices even though they might not be ones I would normally make.

It usually has to do with impulses. I will admit though there have been times where I lost control with impulse and did not feel like I conciously made the choice although if I plan something out and go though with it then of course I know what I am doing. Im not saying I do anything that bad, Im just stating that for the most part I know what I am doing and make my own choices. I cant imagine someone planning something and going through with it and saying they didnt conciously make the decision to do so. The same goes for someone who repeteively belittles someone. I would think they are doing it on purpose if they keep doing it because it seems obvious to me that they wouldnt do so if they didnt want to. I can understand impulsively doing something without thinking.

This is differant than doing something that you do regularlly. The reason I stated that it is a problem with them is because someone wouldnt do that if they didnt have a problem. Sometimes I try to help people with advise but I have noticed that some people never seem to get it. I dont know if I express what I am trying to say in the wrong way or if it me that doesnt know how other people feel. I would imagine its both. I can understand that it is your problem that you had to go though but what I meant is that it is not a problem with who you are. I will give an example of what I am trying to express. Imagine a kid who grows up with abusive parents. The parents make the kids life horrible everyday. The kid never did anything wrong to deserve that. There is nothing wrong with the kid. There is something seriously wrong with the kids parents. Now the kid may grow up to have problems but those problems wouldn't be there if the parents were nice and supportive. There is nothing wrong with being differant from other people too. Everyone is different and there is no such thing as normal. As adults we choose who we associate with and are responsible for ourselves. People need to make their own personal decisions.

Child abuse is at least as bad as murdering innocent people and I think that people who seriously abuse children should recieve equal punishment for what they do. I am disgusted when I hear about child abusers being let free from prison. I hear all kinds of stories about these kinds of situations and it is not taken seriously enough. Some people think not feeling guilty is bad or even sociopathic but not if you didnt do anything wrong. That why it seems to me that someone wouldn't do something if they thought they would feel guilty about it. I can do nice things not because I am afarid of feeling guilty for not doing it but simply because it is logical to do something that everyone benifits from and creates a better outcome.

Doing something nice out of fear is not the right reason to do so. People should be nice just because it makes sense to do so. I do not even feel a need to do something nice to feel good about myself or any type of emotional satification. I will just do it to do it. The reward is not in knowing you did something good but rather you made a better outcome for everyone. I think its funny that people seem to believe that you need feelings to do something nice because to me it seems almost as if it takes more greed to do something nice to satisfy yourself. Im sure I have to have some sort of feelings but I am usually unaware of what they are. I do have a desire to make the world a better place because I think there is too much negativity in the world that people have created with their emotional needs.

I have always perceived reality as if it is a mathmatical equasion. To me emotions are mathmatical as well. Everything is. More like a biological simulated program made out of a binary code made out of 1's and 0's but its actually both and neither. Its all made out of anomalies and its nothing more than perception. Not so much like the matrix though. Its more like the anti-matrix. I guess Im getting off topic. I tend to do that but I was trying to share what I perceive as reality. I dont know if it helps or not though. Imagine that we're all characters in a book that someone is writing and everything we live in is just a story of memories. It makes sense to me because you can watch a game today like the sims where you create these characters that begin making their own decisions off of multiple choices of randomly selected binary codes. Its a step up from a book that someone wrote with one possible outcome where now there are multiple outcomes. Now imagine later where someone invents the next step up as if they havent already. There will even be more randomly selected choices.

Pretty soon you get into advanced artificial intelligence. Where we live in our biological reality it is so advanced that there are infinate choices so whats the next step up and who's controlling our game? I've noticed that by mixing autistic logical anwsers with psychotic delusions I may have figured it all out by logically ruling out the unreasonable ideas that dont make sense until I make sense out of them. No I dont think I'm smarter than everyone else but I do know that the average person doesn't sit around and think about stuff constantly like I do. I think I may have very well already thought my way through insanity and back.


Broke it up a bit for easier reading.



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13 May 2010, 7:58 am

Wonderful. :)


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13 May 2010, 12:48 pm

I try to be as realistic about myself as possible. I know that I must not expect too much of myself.


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13 May 2010, 1:19 pm

That is a vague question, because there are lots of different parts of me that I like and dislike.
The only time I ever have a moment of self loathing, is when I do something stupid and display the parts of myself I dislike. So if I get frustrated and lose my temper, say something ridiculous as a result of that, throw a tantrum over something small, be late for something, break something like I always seem to do, lose something, do something immature etc etc then all I want to do is bang my head against a brick wall repeatedly until I am no longer capable of conscious thought, or that by some miracle this repeated head crushing would somehow make me an entirely different person.
But there are other things that I do like about myself. And those things are my intelligence, the fact that I'm not completely ugly or obese, I have friends that like me and who gives a s**t that I'm not the most popular person in the world and I am somewhat talented at drawing people.


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13 May 2010, 1:40 pm

I hate myself; I always have. I feel like I'm little more than a burden on my loved ones and on society in general. I remember once sitting down and trying to come up with a list of 10 things I like about myself. I couldn't even get halfway there. But I'd wager that if I tried to make a list of 50 things I hate about myself, I'd be able to do it.

In response to previous posts about low self-esteem stemming from family issues/bullying, I want to say that I come from a loving family, and the bullying I experienced in school wasn't too severe. In fact, the majority of people whom I come into contact with nowadays are very kind to me and often express pity towards me.

So my self-esteem issues don't come from the way other people treat me, but rather the way I perceive and treat myself.



carltcwc
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13 May 2010, 3:42 pm

I am curious. Do you know why you have issues with yourself if you dont mind me asking? I am a voulenteer co-facilator support group counceler and I am trying to understand other peoples issues better. I am more bothered by my cognative and neurological symptoms more than anything else and I have been trying to be more understanding what other people are going through as well so I can think of what kind of advice to give. Usually when Im there I have no idea what to say towards peoples situations so I dont say anything. I started doing this voulenteer work a while ago because I noticed that the mental health resources in my state were not very good although I am now noticing they are more focused towards people with neurotic disabilities and there are just not many, if any, resources for autistic adults. Like I said earlier in this post, I cant tell if I make a good councler or not. Probablly for some people I do, and for some I may not. I am trying to think of ways to help people with their problems by finding logical outcomes for their situations. I have always been able to overcome any feelings of negativity with logical anwsers. However I realize now it is hard to for some to understand. I have a friend who pointed out to me last month when she was sad and I asked what she was angry about and she said, Im not angry, Im sad, cant you tell from me crying. I apoligized to her because I think it was something insensitive I said that made her sad although today I cant remember what it was. I didnt mean to make her sad but I sometimes say things that people dont understand and take it in an emotional way. I can either feel good, bad, or neutral. The difference even between sad and angry can be confusing to me but I think I get it. Ive heard people even say theres difference between happiness and excitement. It all seems like either good or bad in a way. I can feel strongly about something at times but to me its either feeling good or bad. Ive had people who have known me for long periods of time mention to me that I dont have emotions. Im pretty sure I can feel things though because there are certain subjects I feel strongly about. It can be confusing to me what other people are experiencing though. Last week I was at an intake evaluation so I could get resources to get my provigil paid for. I remember them evaluating me and they asked me what I was feeling and I said something about wanting to get my meds for free so I could get more stuff done. They told me I just told them what I was thinking or wanted, what do you feel and then I said I feel like an old man. They said thats not an emotion either. Then it hit me. I now felt annoyed. That one I seem to get often though. Being alexithymic is like not being able to distinguish between feelings and thoughts. I do feel disconnected from the real world and it seems like a simulation and my body is an avatar that I am controlling from another plane of existance. Strangely enough I even enjoy being this way.



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13 May 2010, 6:13 pm

serenity wrote:
When I made the recent thread about comparing yourself, and whether you like compliments, and such... it's because of something that I find deep inside of myself that I don't understand. Even though it has gotten better, I still seem to have a kind of bitter dislike about who I am. It's very borderline-ish, and can make me behave in a borderline-ish way when I get in a self-loathing emotional state. I doubt very seriously that I have BPD, because I was extensively tested for PDs at my recent evaluation. Yet, I seem to have this unhinged deep, almost sense of self hate inside. It makes me at times, very difficult to live with. My husband is the only person that I seem to take this irrational side of myself out on. It makes no sense, because in every other way, I am a rational, unemotional level headed person.

Is this common? How do you feel about yourself?


I'm the same way, only I don't have a spouse so it's only my parents who see this side of me. I'm quite dependent on them at the moment but I still lash out in anger, knowing that they won't ever abandon me or leave me to fend for myself. My self-loathing has most to due with the severe depression I've been in for the past 3 years. I don't know that I truly hate myself though as much as I hate the depression. Yet this hate/anger often comes out as a sense of bitter envy and disdain for people happier than myself, people who I feel could not possibly know what it's like to be me, and people from whom I fear being judged or patronized for my mental illness. As someone who's studied to be a scientist I see myself as an extremely rational/logical person, yet that doesn't have any bearing on my ability to control my emotions. On some level I'm almost skeptical that anyone has true control over thier mental state. This notion of "free-will" that people have may be just a powerful illusion.



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14 May 2010, 10:04 am

I can not stand people because the way they make me feel or the way they react to me. I remember when I was in my 20's I worked in a resteraunt. There was a waitress that was studying how to be a special education teacher. I went to high school with her and she knew I went to special education classes when I was there. Just about all the workers there thought I was slightly ret*d or crazy or both. She was the only one who said I probably had an above average IQ or even a high IQ. She brought in some IQ tests and tested me and four of the jerks who said they were way smarter than me and tormented me the most. When the tests were over I scored at least 20-30 points higher than those dopes. They just said she rigged the test results so everybody would stop picking on me. After that if my fellow employees left their drinks unattended and no one was around I spit in their drinks. They were essentially spitting in my face with their insults making my life a living hell when I was there. It took me a long time and a lot of resumes but I took another job and guess what I was treated badly there too. People are trash.

I am so full of self hate I think I am going to implode at times. The only time I am at peace is when I am completely alone. People can't wait to take their verbal jabs at me and I would rather have them hit me it would be less painful.



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22 May 2010, 7:16 pm

i love me, one day perhaps I will be able to marry myself


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22 May 2010, 8:21 pm

I like myself as a person very much, and am generally optimistic and content with life. I consider myself a decent person who has achieved decent amount of success in life given my crappy health and weirdness. Although it still stings when people pick on me for not driving a car, not having many friends, not volunteering for charity...etc. I don't want to put a sticker on my head saying I'm not normal, but sometimes I almost feel like I should. I wouldn't be considered very successful for a normal person, but I have an almost "normal" life and did everything I'm expected to do. It's a lot to handle for aspies.



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22 May 2010, 9:04 pm

Even better than I did, last week. I'm getting more hours, at work. :D


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22 May 2010, 11:46 pm

Todesking wrote:
I can not stand people because the way they make me feel or the way they react to me. I remember when I was in my 20's I worked in a resteraunt. There was a waitress that was studying how to be a special education teacher. I went to high school with her and she knew I went to special education classes when I was there. Just about all the workers there thought I was slightly ret*d or crazy or both. She was the only one who said I probably had an above average IQ or even a high IQ. She brought in some IQ tests and tested me and four of the jerks who said they were way smarter than me and tormented me the most. When the tests were over I scored at least 20-30 points higher than those dopes. They just said she rigged the test results so everybody would stop picking on me. After that if my fellow employees left their drinks unattended and no one was around I spit in their drinks. They were essentially spitting in my face with their insults making my life a living hell when I was there. It took me a long time and a lot of resumes but I took another job and guess what I was treated badly there too. People are trash.

I am so full of self hate I think I am going to implode at times. The only time I am at peace is when I am completely alone. People can't wait to take their verbal jabs at me and I would rather have them hit me it would be less painful.




This reminded me of when I worked in a restaurant as a waiter for two years.
I was 26-28 at the time and instead people tormenting me, they were afraid
of me. After the bullying I went through in high school...I decided i'd act like
a "psycho" so people would leave me alone. It worked.... not with every single
person in the world.....but with most. So people actually didn't treat me that
badly at that job. Most just tried to avoid me as best they could and that was
OK by me.


In fact...many of my co-workers at that place were quite nice. Quite a few overlooked my "craziness" and I called a couple friends while I worked there. I've
since lost touch with them...but they were actually decent people. I know I may
have alienated alot more decent people there with my self-defensive "psycho"
act....but that's the price I felt I had to pay. There was a young guy with Down
syndrome who worked there too. He wrapped silverware in the back of the
restaurant since, of course, management doesn't want one of "those people"
to be seen by too many customers. :roll: Most of the employees were RELATIVELY
decent with him aside from the fact that a few treated him like a cute little
puppy dog rather than a dignified human person. But i'll never forget one
day when he walked in.

He was walking towards the back to start his shift and there were three
young, attractive, well-dressed girls standing around the bar. They took
one look at him and started laughing. This was one of the most despicable
things i've ever seen. Here we have some of the most fortunate people who
have ever walked this earth making a mockery of someone like him. I really
wanted to say something to them, but since they were the all-important
customers, I would've been fired if I did. I hate myself to this day for not
speaking up and telling them what reprehensible pigs they were. It would've
been worth getting fired for.

Jesus supposedly said; "To those whom much is given....much is expected".


But alas....such things are what we can expect from many "to whom much is given".

Laughter, mockery, ridicule, cruelty, gas chambers, etc....ad nauseum.

Humans...."god's special creatures" indeed.

:x



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22 May 2010, 11:58 pm

On most days: I know I'm not perfect, but I don't dislike myself.


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