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gailryder17
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21 Jun 2011, 9:49 pm

If you are starting a story, how do you come up with a plot? I need tips. I'm thinking maybe something like Planet of the Apes but I don't want to rip it off. I like supernatural beings, so maybe a few people find evidence of another world which they travel to and find all sorts of supernatural, immortal beings (from fairies to elves to kitsune, whatever there is) and humans are the lowest form of existence. Immortals only fear is becoming mortal and the main character meets a creature who's immortality was taken away and...
... this is starting to sound cliche, isn't it?


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21 Jun 2011, 10:30 pm

A good place to start is studying story structure. There are several schools of thought about it. A character driven story involves how the character is changed in the story and uses whats called a character arc. In a plot driven story the plot is more important and the characters change only slightly if at all. Joseph Campbell's "hero's journey" is one of the more classic structures but there are others. There is also someone who teaches "The Snowflake Method" online and last I checked he was free. I can't recall his name at the moment but you'll find him with a search.

Don't stress too much if your idea seems cliche. Just have fun with it and make the cliche yours.


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gailryder17
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21 Jun 2011, 10:32 pm

Story Structure? I always have a feeling that my characters don't change enough so I could go with the plot one. I'm trying to figure out how that would work with my style of writing.


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21 Jun 2011, 10:33 pm

Here are a few basic rules:

1. There are no new stories to tell.

2. Copying from one source is plagiarism; copying from multiple sources is research.

3. Stories involve characters in conflict while reacting to change.

4. The best stories are character-driven; the motivations of the character drive his or her actions.

5. There are two basic openings: (a) Someone leaves, or (b) someone arrives.

6. There must be a murder.

7. Characters must seem real - the main protagonist must be flawed, and the main antagonist must have redeeming qualities.

8. Everything happens for a reason.


Storymind is a very useful website for writers. Click This Link for articles on writing.


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21 Jun 2011, 10:44 pm

Stories always start with an idea. It might take a while to churn out a full blown story but time is good. And as has been already stated, no stories are totally original. None.



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22 Jun 2011, 12:41 am

The main character should have some sort of problem to solve.



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22 Jun 2011, 1:05 am

AbleBaker wrote:
The main character should have some sort of problem to solve.


Well, if I didn't know that before!


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Zokk
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22 Jun 2011, 1:44 am

Well, I often start with something as simple as a line of dialogue or an action, and just work outward from there. But before that, though, I often have a character or two in mind to start with, and often a setting, as well. I think about what might have led up to that scene in my head, and what might come after it, and then just start writing down whatever comes to mind, editing and connecting the major events as I come up with them and placing them where I think they should go in the story.

Of course, all the stuff that's already been said about conflict, story structure, character development and the character arc applies as well, for sure.


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shaybugz
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22 Jun 2011, 7:53 am

This probably won't sound very helpful, but it's true- I don't create the stories, they come to me. In various different ways. I find the best of those are from using writing exersices or to just start a stream of consciousness writing, which if you don't know what that is it's where you write down anything and everything that runs through your mind-- no censoring! If that means going in a different direction in the middle of a sentence, then you do it. Usually a character or plot or something shows itself through that.

And again, this seems weird but in order to come up with a story- I read other's stories. it NEVER fails. If I start reading 2-3 books a week, I'll inevitably come up with a story that just demands to be written down. I'm not sure how this works, but it does. Also, by reading a lot you learn what it takes to put a full story together structurewise and all...

so there's my advise- get yourself some writing exercices, and read ALOT. It'll come to you!


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Fnord
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22 Jun 2011, 9:03 am

shaybugz wrote:
... I find the best of those are from using writing exersices or to just start a stream of consciousness writing, which if you don't know what that is it's where you write down anything and everything that runs through your mind-- no censoring! If that means going in a different direction in the middle of a sentence, then you do it. Usually a character or plot or something shows itself through that.

Keep a journal, and use it to record your experiences, your dreams, your observations, your thoughts, and your feelings.

Pay attention to the news. Some friends of mine and I used to play a game called "Conspiracy Theory" - we would collect a hundred or so news headlines, mix them up in a hat, draw three at random, and try to come up with a short story that linked them all together. Some were hilarious, some were serious, and some made us wonder how close we were to The Truth.

Observe people - their mannerisms, speech patterns, clothing, the way the walk, their accents, et cetera. These observations will be useful for character development. Then try to imagine what would happen if two apparent strangers were to meet - one with a Dark Secret, and one with a Good Heart, for example. Then write down your thoughts as the story unfolds in your mind.


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22 Jun 2011, 12:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
5. There are two basic openings: (a) Someone leaves, or (b) someone arrives.

6. There must be a murder.



NO.



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22 Jun 2011, 9:33 pm

I agree with most of what's been said. The best way I found to really get cranking with your story ideas is not to go from a dead stop straight into writing novels. That takes an incredible amount of stamina. There are certainly writers who can, and who have. But they're rare. Start with one story idea and write it as a short story. See what happens. Then edit like nuts. While you're editing the first story, pick another idea and write another story. It's easy, when editing, to get so close to it that you can't see the forest for the trees. That's a good time to put that story down and work on your other story instead. As soon as it's done, start a third.

I also use an idea book. When you get an idea, write it down in the idea book. It can be a character, a scene, a setting, some dialog, a plot thread, a wholly realized plot, or whatever. Write it down before you lose it. When you're editing one story, just finished another, and are fishing for that next story, flip through your idea book and go fishing. Eventually stuff starts coming together.

And above all else keep your eyes and ears open! Once you start writing, ideas seem to multiply around you. The idea for one story came from a single sentence someone said. I wondered what the ramifications of that would be, and pop, there it was. It wound up being about a thousand words. Not a long one, but a fun one.

In case no one has ever stressed this before, stories really come to life during editing. There are one or two extremely rare exceptions to this rule, but for most writers it's editing where things really start to happen. When editing, and really when writing first draft, there are some things to keep in mind. These are Kurt Vonnegut's eight guidelines for writing short stories. Some of these really only apply to short stories, but the same idea can be applied to longer fiction as well:

1- Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.

The best way to check if you've done this is to find a first reader. Hand them your manuscript and a red pen. Have them mark down any place the story gets slow or loses cohesiveness. Have them circle the bits that read well and kept them reading for more. Have them mark where they lost interest in the main character, and where they felt the most closely involved. When you edit, use this information to cut the chaff and beef up the good stuff.

2- Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.

Doesn't always have to be the protagonist, but it helps if it is. The thing is, if you're rooting for someone it means they're in a situation where they need someone rooting for them. If all your characters have what they want all the time, it makes for a dull story.

3- Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.

This really is true, even for your one dimensional cardboard stand-in characters. The bystander at the accident wants to see something worthwhile. The guy in the elevator wants to get back to his office. The pilot wants a smooth flight without any malfunctions. You can use this to put some spark in their eyes when you write their part of the story. For your main characters, both protagonist and antagonist, this is essential. Your antagonist can't simply be mean. They have to want something very very badly that runs counter to what the protagonist wants (equally or even more badly!)

4- Every sentence must do one of two things—reveal character or advance the action.

This one is more specific to short fiction than to novels since novels have more time and room to expound. In a short story each sentence should really do both things if possible. Otherwise it runs the risk of being circled, with the words "too slow" written next to it by your first reader.

5- Start as close to the end as possible.

Again, this is more for short stories than for novels, but even with a novel it helps if the story is already in motion before the reader gets to it. In the case of Conrad's Heart of Darkness, the story was already over before it started! (The whole thing is told as a recollection.) But even when the recollection begins, he begins with the character arriving in Africa, not thinking about going in the first place.

6- Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them—in order that the reader may see what they are made of.

This also goes back to giving the reader at least one main character to root for. Be mean! In McCaffrey's Dragonsong, the main character is a talented musician and songwriter whose family is ashamed of her. They deny her the right to write her own music, finally deny her music itself. By the time McCaffrey is done with her, she suffered a permanent injury to her right hand, and is too maimed to play an instrument, for crying out loud. When she finally gets what she's after, the reader is almost yelling, "YEAAAAH!"

7- Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.

(This is straight Vonnegut, no paraphrasing.) Write to your first reader. They're the one who gets first crack at taking your writing apart, after all. So you need to pick a first reader you trust!

8- Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.

(Again, this is straight Vonnegut, no paraphrasing.) In some genres this really doesn't work. Horror and suspense short stories break this last rule regularly. In fact they more or less have to. It's part of the genre. But what he's getting at is that it's not so much what's going to happen that's in question. It's how. You know Rockford is going to solve the mystery just as much as you know Captain Kirk is going to get his butt back on the bridge of the Enterprise at the end of the show. It's how they pull it off that's the draw.

Edit with these points in mind, and your story becomes richer for it.

Something else to try is to take whatever your idea is and twist it until it doesn't work. Here's what I mean:

Quote:
Immortals only fear is becoming mortal and the main character meets a creature who's immortality was taken away and...


Even better, what if the main character met an immortal who wanted to die and couldn't? No matter what they did, they kept coming back...

Quote:
I like supernatural beings, so maybe a few people find evidence of another world which they travel to...


Why let them get there so easily? Why not make the whole thing almost, but not quite work? Everyone else splits, but the main character presses on, figures out what's wrong, fixes it, and... ?

Or maybe people find evidence of this place, but one by one they keep disappearing. Maybe this place doesn't want to be found?

Or maybe discovery of this place is the initiation rite, and the people are welcomed and given transportation, only to find out that instead of meeting the all powerful immortals, they were transported by vivisectionists or by slavers or by someone who is trying to break the power base of the immortals or...

Screw with your ideas. Push them and twist them. Don't give them the easy out. As soon as it seems like the next logical step is obvious, question why that is. The readers will expect the obvious, too, and will be bored if they see it. Give them the unexpected instead.

Sorry for rambling...



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22 Jun 2011, 9:38 pm

YourMother wrote:
Fnord wrote:
5. There are two basic openings: (a) Someone leaves, or (b) someone arrives.

6. There must be a murder.

NO.

Okay, let me correct this...

5. There is one basic opening: Something Changes.

6. There must be conflict.

Better?


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Zokk
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22 Jun 2011, 10:17 pm

ViewUpHere wrote:
4- Every sentence must do one of two things—reveal character or advance the action.

That's incomplete. In my film making classes, they drill something very similar to that into our heads. It applies to scenes in the context of film making, but each little element in a scene (characters, dialogue, frame composition, props, etc.) can be akin to each sentence in a book. It's actually, in it's complete form:

1. Orient the Viewer - Give the audience something to ground them in the story and with the characters, usually a physical setting.
2. Reveal Character - Give the audience some information about the characters, whether that's through their actions or dialogue.
3. Advance the Plot - Give the audience information that keeps the story moving and contributes to the story arc as a whole.

If each scene doesn't do at least one of those three things, and each sentence doesn't contribute to that goal, it doesn't belong in there.


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YourMother
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23 Jun 2011, 2:45 am

Fnord wrote:
YourMother wrote:
Fnord wrote:
5. There are two basic openings: (a) Someone leaves, or (b) someone arrives.

6. There must be a murder.

NO.

Okay, let me correct this...

5. There is one basic opening: Something Changes.

6. There must be conflict.

Better?


YES!! :evil:

But it should be made clear that conflict does not need to be physical.



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24 Jun 2011, 9:02 am

gailryder17 wrote:
AbleBaker wrote:
The main character should have some sort of problem to solve.


Well, if I didn't know that before!
Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated.