Had a "maybe-date-maybe-not" - what do I do?

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OK, so the second girl that I posted about in https://www.wrongplanet.net/postt263194.html and I hung out together today. We were just meant to do an activity that would take half an hour or so, but ended up just chatting for 3 hours after! During that chat she invited me to go have dinner with her - tonight. We go in less than an hour. I don't know if it's a date or not, though!

On the one hand, she goes out to dinner regularly with friends (including with just a guy friend), so it's no big deal to her. Also, she hasn't been touching me that much any more, since that conversation where I said it comes across as "flirty". On the other hand, we again talked (at some length) about dating and she mentioned, among other things, that in her younger days she used to act more like a guy and approach guys and ask them out, but doesn't like to any more, because when a girl does it it can be perceived as her being desperate. I reassured her that it's not and guys love it and she should totally do it. It was shortly after that conversation (but not during it) that she mentioned a restaurant she wants to check out. She's mentioned it to me twice before and I was tempted to ask if I can come, but it seemed a bit pushy, since I'd basically be inviting myself, not her. So this time I asked who she's going with and after a little bit of an awkward pause she said "well, actually, I was hoping you might want to come along". So I managed "err... yeah... erm, sure... that sounds... err, great!" Then I told her that I actually wanted to go when she first mentioned it, but didn't feel comfortable saying so and we had a bit of laugh about it.

So... we're going, but it's never been established as a date (or otherwise). What do I do? Should I try to pay? If I do that I feel like I'd have to justify it somehow (since she's the one who asked me) and I don't know how! What else can I do, paying aside? I feel like this might be my last chance - I either make some move now or forever establish myself as a friend.

Last edited by FMX on 19 Jul 2014, 12:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I would pay or offer to split the bill. I am sure that even if it is just a "friendly hanging out" non date, that she would still appreciate it.

Play it by ear; if it ends up feeling like a date, pick up the check, and if she objects, say something to the effect of "well, I DID invite myself along " or "well, you DID put up with me ", (don't actually wink, I'm just trying to get the tone across in text) and say it with a smile, which allows her to see that you're interested while also giving her an 'out' if she's not, without embarrassing either of you. Either way, I wouldn't worry about who pays too much, I've had a few dates recently where we've split the bill after I've attempted to pay, that's just how some women roll these days and isn't a signal or anything, unless it's an abrupt "check please!" kind of thing.

Thanks, but I don't know what a date feels like. I've never been on a date in my life! Anyway, time to go! Thanks for the advice, guys. Here's hoping!

You seem to be doing okay at reading the situations so far, and you have some idea what a date is supposed to look like, right? Basically, you're just going to dinner with someone whom you're hopping to get to know better, who hopefully feels the same way about you, so have a drink and relax, ask her questions and listen, people love to talk about themselves, be funny if you are but don't try too hard if you're not, and if things go really well, ask her if she'd like to go get a drink or something afterwards. That's pretty universally date territory, but like my grabbing the check suggestions, is low pressure and won't embarrass either of you.

OK, so the dinner happened. She was about to pay her share, but I paid the whole bill, using your "well, I did invite myself " line. She replied "well, no, I invited you!" - but allowed me to pay without fuss and thanked me. It turned out to be an expensive restaurant, too! (She didn't know that when she suggested it, though.) Other than that, nothing really indicated it was a date. We talked OK during the dinner, but it was kind of difficult for me with the noise in the restaurant, so the chat was actually much better on the way to and from the place. So, on the bright side, she seemed to be enjoying herself, but it was all just regular friendly chat, no flirting, no good-night kiss or anything like that.

At one point I had the perfect opportunity to say something and missed it: she pointed out a woman behind me with very high heels walking up a stairs and I turned around to look. As I did that, our waiter put his hand in front of my eyes! "WTF?! That was rather rude of him", I thought. He then said something, apparently to both of us, but the only word I made out was "beautiful". Later, the girl explained to me that he was saying: "you should not be staring at that woman, you should be staring at your date, she's beautiful!" So there was my chance to say something like "yeah, he's absolutely right", while looking her in the eyes, but what did I say? "Oh, s**t, it must have looked to him like I was staring at that woman's arse!" Well, it cracked her up, at least.

OK, I tried one thing that might have been flirting (I'm not sure). As we were walking back she said said she keeps seeing guys walking with their hands on their girlfriends arses, instead of their lower backs. ("What is with that?") So we briefly discussed the reasons why they might do that (show their ownership of the girl, etc.) and then she said "no, the hand should be HERE!" and poked me in the lower back with her finger. I'm ticklish, so I cracked up laughing, but as she was apologising, I put my hand in the same place on her back (didn't poke her). So, apparently, she's ticklish, too. I then said "well, maybe you're less ticklish on the arse, so that's one reason... no, no, don't worry, I'm not going to try". Probably stuffed it up a bit with that last bit.

I suppose one other high point was this: between my last thread and this one she shared with me some food she had cooked for herself, which was nice enough in itself, but she also made quite a fuss over whether I'll like it. I later texted her that it was yummy, but when she next saw me in person she still asked "was it good, really?" This came up during tonight's dinner and she explained the reason for her question was the odd timing of my text - she thought maybe I was lying, because I didn't have enough time to eat the food yet. Anyway, I re-assured her on that and mentioned it was very cute how concerned she was about this, which got a lot of giggling out of her.

That aside, while we had a pleasant chat and all, there was no indication that she's attracted to me. I don't think I indicated that I'm attracted to her, either, even though I very much am. On the bright side, she texted me afterwards saying "I hope you had a good night out" (yes) and "I had a good time also ".

I will see her again anyway on Sunday (in a group this time), but I just don't know what the hell to do to take this beyond a friendship, other than going full aspie and just saying something like "hey, I know it totally doesn't look like it, but I actually do find you very attractive! really!" *sigh* How can this be so easy for most people?

Last edited by FMX on 19 Jul 2014, 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If you really like this girl and you really want to be with her, you are going to have that conversation with her where you ask her out and explain to her that you like her and want to be with her. She will say yes if she feels the same way in return. She seems interested in talking to you about everything, she seemingly enjoys your company and you two are able to laugh things off. She may want to flirt with you, but you may be too formal or serious about it which might have taken her by surprise.

At the same time, if she used to approach guys and act like a guy and she doesn't now or doesn't want to, my thoughts are she is just as afraid of rejection as you are.

This girl has spent a lot of time with you, FMX. She spent over 3 hours with you, and not tired of your company, she invited you to dinner. She let you pay the bill, and when the waiter referring to her as your date, and you didn't hear him, she repeated what she said and used the word, "date". I think she considered herself your date, and is getting to know you, and perhaps assess if she has a romantic interest in you. Translation, I think you were on a date, chief.

This does not mean she has romantic interests in you necessarily, it just means she may be trying to assess whether she does or not. I would recommend you start asking her out to various activities. The more time you spend with her, the better chance you have of gaining her interests.

I'm rooting for you!

Heh... thanks. Actually, I'm not entirely sure whether she used the word "date" when quoting the waiter. She might have used some other word to refer to herself. Even if it was "date" she may have just been directly quoting - and hey, of course, it would have looked like a date to the waiter. So I don't want to read too much into that.

Now that I think of it, I have made a few other attempts to indicate I might be interested, but they were all kind of... weak or weird. One example would be: when we were talking about tattoos I said "I'd be surprised if you had any!" (why?) "wouldn't want to do something like that to your skin, since you think it's so nice and soft and all, remember?" (laughing - yeah, I remember) "well... you're not wrong about that" (while patting her upper arm again). This seemed OK at the time, but in hindsight it seems like a weird way to put it. I can imagine an NT girl thinking "err, was that a compliment or what?"

But yesterday she definitely wasn't making so much physical contact any more. It was more often me than her (though she didn't seem to object at all). So I see two main possibilities here:
1) she's still unsure if she's interested and doesn't want to inadvertently indicate that she is
2) she's decided that she's not interested in "that way", but is happy to hang out as friends and doesn't want to go through with unambiguously rejecting me unless I force her to.

Last edited by FMX on 19 Jul 2014, 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think she is trying to determine if she likes you as more then a friend. I'm telling you dude, three hours of spending time with somebody and then inviting them out for dinner, that's not something you'd normally do with a "friend". So just to be clear, I don't think she's madly in love with you, which is perfectly normal. "Love at first sight" is pretty rare. But I think it was a date, and since it was a "first date", she's assessing you.

And for the waiter "incident", I was assuming she was quoting the waiter directly. The point is, she *did* quote him directly, and she didn't say something like, "Of course we are just here as friends, but how would the waiter know that, right?" Nope, she just quoted it, and I think she was considering herself your date. Anybody who begs to differ, feel free to do so.

OK, thanks for the reassurance. Now that you mention it, this is consistent with an earlier comment she made when I asked why she wouldn't want guys to ask her out: something like "I try to get to know them... but so far I'm not impressed with anyone". Perhaps she also preferred to not label it as a date to not put any pressure on herself or me, I don't know. But yeah, she definitely didn't say "just as friends" or anything along those lines, either. But remember, this is the same girl who acted shocked that all that touching could be interpreted as flirting, so who the hell knows what she thinks of a guy and a girl having dinner together. (BTW, she's definitely not an aspie. )

Anyway, the question remains: what do I do now? Assuming she's still deciding if she's interested or not, I don't know if there's anything I can purposefully do sway her decision (though tell me if you have any ideas ), but I want to at least not put her off by coming across as uninterested in her. All the stuff I've said, taken together, would probably indicate I'm interested - if she thought about it hard enough. But none of it was unambiguous. I'd like to somehow make it clear, but at the same time without forcing her to make a decision on the spot. The advice I got so far was to try holding her hand, but even that seems difficult to pull off well (especially when you've never done it before!)

Keeping asking to see her. She will get the idea that you are interested in her and she can decide from there. I think there is a very good chance she will say yes. I also see a lot of overthinking coming from you out of this.

This, which by the way is what I suggested as well. Ask her to do something with her. You don't have to refer to it as a "date". When you see her, say something that somebody would say on a date like, "You look very pretty" and then go from there.

She seems to be clearly interested, as others say. And you like her. Maybe it is the time to say something about your differences in a way that gives her a context that helps her appreciate and understand it better? Maybe not saying, "I have a diagnosis..", but more like, "I've found out I have a different kind of personality type, so I do things a bit differently than a lot of people. Let me know if something I do does not make sense."

She probably already sees that you are different, and she obviously likes you, so just talk about it in a positive way.

I have enjoyed reading this post, because I just got a crush for first time in forever and am trying to imagine a "date"...

Oooh yes, she has already realised I'm a bit "different". Turns out I nearly stuffed this up before it even started:

Even though we really only started talking 2 weeks ago, we actually first met a few months ago. It was just a 5 minute introductory chat, largely driven by her. About a week later I ran into her on the street. I was walking along, lost in my own thoughts, as I often am and didn't even recognise her immediately. She said hello first and I recognised her just before that, but must have still looked quite confused, because she said "it's ... you know, we met ..." and since I did recognise her by then it seemed like stating the obvious to me, so I said "yeah, yeah, I know" - probably with a blank expression on my face. "Well... err... see you later".

I didn't even think much of it at the time. Last week she said she's good at reading body language and I said "oh, I'm not" to which she said "oh, I know!" Then she told me after that chance meeting in the street she thought I must have really disliked her! Oops! Damn ASD.

She also asked me why I don't have a GF (during the conversation about her apparent "flirtiness") and I said that I'm just weird and I don't "get" the whole thing. Which was, again, probably the wrong thing to say, as it may have implied I have no interest whatsoever in relationships. Aaargh!

You've indicated that you are usually smiling and joking around when you say these things - I don't think anything you have said has been a stuff-up really, if that's always the case. People say slightly silly things all the time, and most people don't analyse everything that comes out of other people's mouths